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December 10th, 2016
Response to Damien: How to run connection game.
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Halffull

Halffull

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Join Date: 12/23/2006 | Posts: 3178

This is one of those threads where you start writing your response, then you realize it should really be an article in its own right. It's in response to Damiens Excellent article : Skip Attraction - and still get the girl.


Fucking awesome article man. I've had some thoughts floating around in my head lately about this... would love to get your collaboration on this shit.

I never ever followed ACS model but I did notice that my club interactions pretty much followed it spot on... and I thought maybe Mr. E was right about that being the model for how interactions between male and female work.

But then I started doing daygame and I realized that my interactions would follow all sorts of weird patterns, but most commonly as I started getting deeper and deeper into the connection shit, it would be CSA.

So, it's not really Attraction that's necessary to start with in a club... it's attention.

The other interesting conclusion I came to from these observations was that Connection had NO bearing on attraction whatsoever. Listening to a girl, did not, as some community members advocate (and yes, I actually saw a post by an instructor an another forum advocating this position), kill attraction. Nor did it, as I originally thought, and you posit in this article, create attraction.

Rather, it just created an intense desire to be around you. And yet, there was attraction created in these interactions. The sexual tension was there, and I couldn't figure out where it was coming from.

At first, I thought it was the tiny bits of "attraction" material I was throwing in. My listening allowed me to see exactly when she was getting bored, and so I would throw in a bit of fun to keep the interaction positive, and then go back to active listening. It was this process that made me include the actual step of "acting" in my active listening model... something that most active listening ironically doesn't include.

However, I soon realized that again, I wasn't responding to lack of ATTRACTION in the girl, but lack of attention, and that this was what would build up when I would throw these fun bits in. While there where small BT spikes when I would do this, it wasn't nearly enough to justify the massive attraction that I was generating from these girls.

Additionally, there were TONS of guys in the so called "friends zone" that had great connection with girls, but absolutely no attraction from them. What was I doing that I was able to have SEX with all my friends, while they couldn't...

I soon realized that while my typical pattern was CSA, the guys stuck in the friend zone would typically attempt to do CAS. They'd get really close to the girl, then they'd start to test the waters to see if she liked them, and try to do attractive things to impress her, then they'd "make a move" and if she didn't respond well, they'd "realize" that they had no chance, and that would be it.

So here's the insight:
It's the SEDUCTION which creates attraction. Specifically, Sexuality and Escalation. All the massive attraction gains I was getting came from when I introduced these two elements. ESPECIALLY when the girl realized that I was unapologetic about these things, and that it was just part of who I was. This is why Shock and Awe works so well, and also why a makeout will ALWAYS be more intense the more she rejects your kiss... she sees that you are unapologetic about your sexuality and escalation, and that your identity is not reactive to what she does.

Finally came the last piece. I found that when I had this massive connection built, EVEN when I then built massive attraction through escalation, the girl would still be scared to have sex. Luckily, through my active listening process, I was able to determine exactly WHY she was scared, and through the fourth step: Act, I was able to correct it.

I began to notice a pattern of three objections, that, if dealt with before hand, would eliminate 90% of lmr when using the CSA model:

1. This makes me a slut.
2. I'll get attached, and you won't.
3. You'll get attached, and I won't.

As long as you can answer these three objections (the answers all depend on what you want from the relationship with the girl) you'll have dealt with all the problems associated with running connection centered game. You'll still get the odd lmr associated with social conditioning, victims, etc, but 90% will be gone.

And that's connection game in a nut shell.
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#1

Drifter

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Join Date: 09/18/2006 | Posts: 93

Interesting Article.

"However, I soon realized that again, I wasn't responding to lack of ATTRACTION in the girl, but lack of attention"

Those go hand in hand my man.

2. Escalating/Confidence is a form of value. What does value equal?! Attraction!!

It was a cool read man, but theres too many posts trying to re-invent the wheel. the ACS model is, was, and will remain a constant. Anything else is not seeing whats truley there.
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#2
Halffull

Halffull

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Join Date: 12/23/2006 | Posts: 3178

no more waiting for my 2000th post.... Manwhore's too slow.

Drifter, I've been looking at this stuff for a while... the ACS model just does't hold.

First of all, the obvious, I'll start building connection with little to no attraction. When I first started out with the connection stuff, I was even still a bit creepy, the attraction was NOT there, but I still managed to start up a conversation with the girl (cause she was polite) and then in that conversation build a decent connection.

Secondly, CAS, what you're advocating is happening, doesn't seem to work. If the connection is solid before there is any attraction lot's and lot's and lot's of being really cool in front of her and being a leader of men and protecting loved ones won't make the seduction any easier... Sexuality and Escalation will. There's something about the seduction that then allows the attraction to build. AFTER you have had sex with her, THEN all those things will go a long way towards build attraction... but beforehand, they seem to do very little.


My theory is that if you build a connection with her without much attraction present, she anchors that connection to a non-sexual friend, blocking any attraction from building. However, if you throw in SEDUCTION, it automatically collapses that anchor... which then gives room for the attraction to start.

All in all, ANY seduction could be intepreted through any combination of the steps... but through my experience, CSA fits best.
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#3
HotBox

HotBox

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Join Date: 10/03/2008 | Posts: 816

Drifter Wrote:
but theres too many posts trying to re-invent the wheel.


The trend I've noticed is that, the more you learn, the more you begin to see that all the "concepts" and "types of game" really just blend all into on singular, undefinable "process". Call it connection, seduction, or whatever. It's all, all of it, everything, part of the same process..

And there is really no right or wrong way to do anything. I can hookup with a girl without any connection at all. Or with only connection. Or anything in between. It's all fluid and organic, and there are no rules that need to be followed or even understood. It's part of our nature to know how to socialize with others, and how to attract others. Just trust your nature.

It's only when we think about it that we apply artificial labels and "steps" and dividers.

I think it's great that you guys are really getting a grasp on your own understanding of how the process works for you. Just make sure you don't think about any of this stuff while in the moment. It's good to reverse-analyze after the fact.. but don't operate that way in the field.

Excellent stuff. Cheers!
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#4
Dion

Dion

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Join Date: 08/11/2007 | Posts: 1686

Halffull Wrote:
no more waiting for my 2000th post.... Manwhore's too slow.

Drifter, I've been looking at this stuff for a while... the ACS model just does't hold.

First of all, the obvious, I'll start building connection with little to no attraction. When I first started out with the connection stuff, I was even still a bit creepy, the attraction was NOT there, but I still managed to start up a conversation with the girl (cause she was polite) and then in that conversation build a decent connection.

Secondly, CAS, what you're advocating is happening, doesn't seem to work. If the connection is solid before there is any attraction lot's and lot's and lot's of being really cool in front of her and being a leader of men and protecting loved ones won't make the seduction any easier... Sexuality and Escalation will. There's something about the seduction that then allows the attraction to build. AFTER you have had sex with her, THEN all those things will go a long way towards build attraction... but beforehand, they seem to do very little.


My theory is that if you build a connection with her without much attraction present, she anchors that connection to a non-sexual friend, blocking any attraction from building. However, if you throw in SEDUCTION, it automatically collapses that anchor... which then gives room for the attraction to start.

All in all, ANY seduction could be intepreted through any combination of the steps... but through my experience, CSA fits best.


This all depends on how you see attraction. What does attraction mean to you. For me attraction is what it is. Someone being attracted to someone else. Most of the time a girl will not fuck you if she is not attracted to you. Period. Some times it will happen but go up to a 10 and try to turn the whole conversation around while she gives you the time just because she is nice won't do it. Again most of the time your subcommunication need to be good and that is attraction. Then you can go ahead and connect but you can't have zero attraction and still get the girl the majority of times.
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#5
Halffull

Halffull

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Join Date: 12/23/2006 | Posts: 3178

Dion Wrote:
This all depends on how you see attraction. What does attraction mean to you. For me attraction is what it is. Someone being attracted to someone else. Most of the time a girl will not fuck you if she is not attracted to you. Period. Some times it will happen but go up to a 10 and try to turn the whole conversation around while she gives you the time just because she is nice won't do it. Again most of the time your subcommunication need to be good and that is attraction. Then you can go ahead and connect but you can't have zero attraction and still get the girl the majority of times.


You're right, it is a matter of semantics largely. I typically measure the amount of attraction by the amount of sexual tension... that is, do you have the desire to reach out and grab the other person. I know I am attracted to another person when I have this feeling. I know a girl is attracted when she starts giving those subcomms... but I know she's REALLY attracted when she starts kino pinging and escalating on me.

What I'm saying is, there NEVER needs to be this feeling when you first meet a girl. If you think you can't go up to a girl and make a HUGE first impression on her without having any sort of sexual tension... you need to work on your connection game.

And it will make her keen to hang out with you... but not to have sex with you in the least. Yes, it works on tens.

Then, without any prompting from HER that she's attracted to you, you can start escalating... and one of two things will happen:

1. She'll trust you enouuh and know enough about your views to just go with it.
2.She'll reject you, but you'll begin to feel the first inklings of sexual tension... it's LMR but she doesn't know it yet.

If you're defining attraction as "the thing you need to get laid," it's by definition impossible to get laid without it... but I think my sexual tension definition is closer to what most people would typically consider attraction.
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#6

Bayroot

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Join Date: 09/26/2006 | Posts: 1113

Like I posted in the other thread - attraction was never meant to "get the girl" - it's CONNECTION that gets the girl - Tyler's words verbatim.

The only reason "attraction" was ever invented as a step was as a TOOL to get to a point where you can build a connection. If you can go in there and she's willing to talk to you SHES ATTRACTED ALREADY. Otherwise she will just walk off, tell you to fuck off etc. THIS is where attraction is needed.

That's why people say "if shes standing there - it's on".
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#7
Buhry

Buhry

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Join Date: 09/10/2007 | Posts: 254

How exactly do you work on your connection game? I'v found that this is something that is missing in my game.. kind of a(big) sticking point I guess. When i game I often just talk about random crap and escalate. Ask some chode questions here and there..relate to what their saying etc, the wuestions and relating to their answers is like my entire comfort/connection game lol. Now I can get a decent level of rapport going but those really strong connections are nowhere to be found.

So what to do? do you guys have any specific tips, ''tactics'', ways to go about building your connection game, etc? Do you ask questions, tell stories, make statements, is it all about the vibe and the bubble, etc etc. or is it all about the PATTERNS ;). I'm a bit confused.
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#8

DAMiEN

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Join Date: 08/18/2007 | Posts: 1021

I wrote a response on the original thread, to most of the questions thrown on there: http://www.rsdnation.com/showthread.php?p=259443&posted=1#post259443

But I'll jump on here also.

I'll begin by saying that I don't particularly try to re-arrange the ACS steps. What I WILL do, however, is literally SKIP steps. For example, I may start at A, but I'll forego C, and jump straight to S. Or I'll skip A, and then go straight to C, as I tried to explain in the other post.

I think that the most important thing to remember is that all of these things are required, though it may be at separate times. For example, if I skip A, it's because I fucked up initially, or don't have the time to do it - like if I saw her walking down the street or something, and I just get her number really fast. And from there I don't bother wit A anymore. When I call her up, or meet wit her, I go straight into C.

Fuck, a much simpler way of communicating this is CALIBRATION. I see no point in A so I go to C, which then sparks and also creats the A for me, which then allows me to go into S when that 'window' to CLOSE opens up. The times I skip comfort is when the attraction is so clearly high, that to go into C would be taking a step back. She is clearly ready to be closed, so the C is skipped, and I proceed to S.

I also don't follow the actual ACS shit. Like, I dont' sit there and think, "Oh, my, I'm done wit A. Let me go into C. OK, I'm done wit C. Let me go into S." But I recognize the windows. If I feel the attraction, but I can sense that she is still a bit unsure, then I know that a connection must be made first. If I know a connection is made quickly, then I know I don't need attraction shit, and I can close the girl. And if the attraction is so high right off the bat, then I close as quick as possible.


Buhry Wrote:
How exactly do you work on your connection game? I'v found that this is something that is missing in my game.. kind of a(big) sticking point I guess. When i game I often just talk about random crap and escalate. Ask some chode questions here and there..relate to what their saying etc, the wuestions and relating to their answers is like my entire comfort/connection game lol. Now I can get a decent level of rapport going but those really strong connections are nowhere to be found.

So what to do? do you guys have any specific tips, ''tactics'', ways to go about building your connection game, etc? Do you ask questions, tell stories, make statements, is it all about the vibe and the bubble, etc etc. or is it all about the PATTERNS ;). I'm a bit confused.


It is MY belief that you can't connect UNLESS you actually WANT to connect with a woman. When I connect with a woman, it's because I literally WANT TO KNOW shit about her. I want to know what makes the tick. I want to know what her past was like. I want to know what her fears are. And she gets to know me because I, too, go on rants. This works for me.

And, yeah, you can create artifical connections, but why would you want to do that? Oh, wait, I know... for the pussy, right? You see, when you start to see the end-goal as JUST 'for the pussy', then the existence of authencity is absent. When you begin to see authencity as the end-goal, that is when you will be most successful.

And believe me, I love pussy. Hell, sometimes I think I may very well end up at a clinic for being a sexaholic or some shit. But that isn't my end-goal. Nor is it my life's quest. If you can let loose from the tight grip has on you, then you'll begin to see the Matrix.

You see, these days I barely even run shit. I even come off as some insipid fuck sometimes. But there is something in the realness of my being that makes a woman want to connect with me - and as a result, become attracted to me, and want to fuck me.


DAMiEN!
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#9
Halffull

Halffull

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Join Date: 12/23/2006 | Posts: 3178

You can check out my blog... makingconnections.tk :)... there's also some good stuff in my 1000th post... Making Connections.

:D

Buhry Wrote:
How exactly do you work on your connection game? I'v found that this is something that is missing in my game.. kind of a(big) sticking point I guess. When i game I often just talk about random crap and escalate. Ask some chode questions here and there..relate to what their saying etc, the wuestions and relating to their answers is like my entire comfort/connection game lol. Now I can get a decent level of rapport going but those really strong connections are nowhere to be found.

So what to do? do you guys have any specific tips, ''tactics'', ways to go about building your connection game, etc? Do you ask questions, tell stories, make statements, is it all about the vibe and the bubble, etc etc. or is it all about the PATTERNS ;). I'm a bit confused.
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#10

Shazam!

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Join Date: 10/01/2008 | Posts: 1294

I bet you money you could go straight to S. C and A are fun, but S is what gets it to the end goal everyone here has. Give it a try.

Edit: Have intent and all that shit, don't be attempting to "trick" her into bed or even bother with beliefs or what have you.
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