THE FORUMS

December 6th, 2016
FOR YOU, RSDNATION: An Ode to Authenticy
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Suspect

Suspect

Trusted Member

Join Date: 01/24/2007 | Posts: 1237

Authenticity isn't a weekend vacation. It is not something you put on with your club shirt so that people will like you. You cannot wield authenticity, or make it your slave. Authenticity is immune to you, and it will transform you from the inside out - one cell at a time.

Authenticity does not play it safe. There are no satisfaction guarantees. When you are being real, you will piss people off. You will disturb the status quo, rock the boat, and incite fear and resistance. Authenticity is a rabbit hole 6 inches wide. Approaching authenticity, it may look insignificant to you. But this rabbit hole goes deep. It is a bottomless pit. Authenticity is an thrilling ride that has no end.

But it is real, oh so real. There is no way to be more alive. Authenticity creates chaos, and chaos precipitates change. You will be loved and hated, rewarded and punished, idolized, ostracized, and everything in between. Your life will be a hurricane with YOU as the eye of the storm.

It will permeate your being until it radiates from every fiber in your body. Once the process has begun, you cannot stop it. Bless your soul - you really think you're in control? You cannot go on thinking that you are a sheep once you have discovered the truth. You will not march blindly to your own slaughter. You will not let other people define how you live.

Authenticity becomes you.


To those who feel the calling - whether it be a slight tickle at the back of your mind, or full blown enthusiasm blasting from your center - to those who are about to take the plunge, to those who are ready to be who they are like they've never been before:

I salute you!
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#1
Suspect

Suspect

Trusted Member

Join Date: 01/24/2007 | Posts: 1237

Quote:
I'd be as bold to even say some of the stuff we learn HERE is adding more layers on which we do not need, we think we need it. It doesn't mean we wont get what we are after. It is yet more social conditioning just at a more subtle level. Although I do think we are closer to truth and reality than most people out there. People who aren't in "the community" are just as authentic as us... It's our nature, they just have different wrapping paper on.


This is my pet peeve! People spewing PUA nonsense like it was any different from chode conditioning. Conditioning is conditioning. Cut the shit, fuck layers and wrappers and everything that you hide behind and just take the leap. It's a leap of faith - in defiance of your reservations, your fear, your desire to live up to the expectations that are placed on you.

In order to be strong in your own reality you have to throw off any identity that is forced on you - by a pickup guru, disney movie, your parents or otherwise. How many blinks before you're on your deathbed and your whole life is behind you? Authenticity feels good. It's the feeling of complete and utter freedom.

This isn't about girls. Will it get you girls? Yes. Hell yes. Like a bazooka will kill a rabbit. Meanwhile you never have to yield to something false to attract them. You never have to compromise yourself, or hide behind anything. You can say and do what you want, have the time of your life in the process, living in a reality where each day is better than the last, and have girls just funnel through your life as an afterthought. It's cool, but the excitement a girl can bring into your life is pretty pale in comparison to the excitement you can bring into your own life by freeing yourself of everything that holds you back. It becomes obvious pretty quick that you have a lot to offer when you can sense the way other people are holding themselves back, and serve as an example for them, accept them for who they are because you accept yourself for who you are.

This is an ode to authenticity, because nothing in my life compares. I've gotten girls being fake. It sucked. So much effort, so little reward, lying in a girl's bed having been so focused on what you're trying to achieve that you didn't bother enjoying yourself along the way. It sucks the joy out of life.

Talk to girls, because you like talking to girls. See them, enjoy looking, walk towards them because it feels good to be close, then when you talk say what you mean and mean what you say. Enjoy it. You only live once. Don't think about what you can do to attract her. Pay attention to what attracts you to her, and express that. Express the attraction, express the fact that you enjoy what you are doing, express your sexual desires without worrying about "right", "wrong", "should", "shouldn't", or any of this nonsense. Take whatever the situation throws at you, and use it to create what you want to exist - that means, if you want sexual tension, because you enjoy it, take whatever she says and use it to build sexual tension. If you want humor, make things funny. Value comes from within, and is only accessible when you are being authentic. Such is the power of authenticity.
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#2

CuriousUno

Senior Member

Join Date: 07/03/2008 | Posts: 294

"In order to be strong in your own reality you have to throw off any identity that is forced on you - by a pickup guru, disney movie, your parents or otherwise."

You are on RSD nation daily, going to bootcamps, watching DVD's, calling dudes chodes, and acquiring 'abundance' mentality. I don't see anyone throwing off any identity that is forced by them here. during the days of yore, men of authenticity weren't necessarily seducers or playboys or even party-animals, but now, it seems like authenticity is defined and gauged through women's attraction for you? I thing someone in this community is redefining what it means to be authentic.

"This isn't about girls. Will it get you girls? Yes. Hell yes. Like a bazooka will kill a rabbit. Meanwhile you never have to yield to something false to attract them. You never have to compromise yourself, or hide behind anything. You can say and do what you want, have the time of your life in the process, living in a reality where each day is better than the last, and have girls just funnel through your life as an afterthought."

Getting laid is not an afterthought of living authentically. Getting laid might involve being authentic, but without the intent to escalate to the lay, you are just one authentic guy going home by himself. Seduction takes effort and the will to become a closer. Girls do not funnel into your life, because for the most part, you are the one that walks to the club full of girls, and not the other way around.
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#3

Jose Armando

Trusted Member

Join Date: 09/18/2006 | Posts: 1065

.
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#4
Suspect

Suspect

Trusted Member

Join Date: 01/24/2007 | Posts: 1237

CuriousUno -

You're keepin it real, and I respect that. I'll give you some of my perspectives on what you said, but I appreciate that you are thinking for yourself and I definitely don't want to change that. I'm not here to think for you, that wouldn't serve any purpose. On that note, RSD doesn't think for me. "Be your own guru" is such an ironic statement coming from a so-called guru. But that's sort of the point. It creates awareness within people that they might be losing themselves in an identity fashioned for them by someone else.

Now I don't think that authenticity can be measured by girl's attraction, not at all. Authenticity can't be measured, or defined, by me or by anybody. That's why I called my post "an ode" and not "a definition" because I really can just appreciate the fact that I am capable of independent thought, and so is everybody else, and that those independent thoughts may differ. I don't take myself too seriously, but I do enjoy seeing other people being real. That's why I'm drawn towards this RSD forum. Some guys seem so real they inspire me. Hopefully I can be real enough to that I inspire a head or two. If not, I enjoy speaking my mind either way.

That said, I got to a certain point and almost left. I had to re-evaluate what I got from being here when I realized that integrity, being true to yourself, whatever you want to call it - I chose for the sake of this post "authenticity" but it all points to the same feeling, in my mind - really does eclipse women. It's HARDER than getting women. The story, for me, doesn't end there. But that's a whole other post.

And how does getting laid fit in? Well, quite simply, I chase girls because I fukken love 'em. What other reason do I need? I talk to them because I enjoy being around them, I kiss them when I am overcome with desire to do so, and so on. I surround myself with girls because I love girls. When I see a girl I want, I can definitely try and get her (and often succeed). It's amazing, though, how much less I have to try. Girls are definitely more than willing to put in a little legwork for me these days. But yah, as for the "intent to escalate to the lay", what's inauthentic about that? You're a man. Nobody else has to teach you to want a hot girl. You'll do that part all on your own (or why bother at all?)

Going deeper - if I'm at the club and I see a girl that triggers that lust in me, that lust where I want to be close to her, I want to pounce on her like a fukken li0n, but I let something hold me back, how authentic is that? What is it holding me back? An authentic desire to chode out against the wall? That said, there have been times when I saw a "turbo" but felt nothing. Does that mean I should approach her anyway, because I'm supposed to be this pickup dude? Both choding out and approaching can be a product of conditioning. The goal, really, is to completely break free of this process and do what you want to do. If you discover you don't actually want girls, and stop pursuing them, so be it. At least you're being real.

p.s. I LOL'd at the "you are the one that walks to the club full of girls, and not the other way around." I work at a club man, so for me it is the other way around! (on some nights). Seriously though you AND the girl walk through the door. She's putting herself there for the taking.


JoseArmando -

The chatroom has an echo. Call Geek Squad. That is all.
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#5

CuriousUno

Senior Member

Join Date: 07/03/2008 | Posts: 294

Suspect Wrote:
CuriousUno -

You're keepin it real, and I respect that. I'll give you some of my perspectives on what you said, but I appreciate that you are thinking for yourself and I definitely don't want to change that. I'm not here to think for you, that wouldn't serve any purpose. On that note, RSD doesn't think for me. "Be your own guru" is such an ironic statement coming from a so-called guru. But that's sort of the point. It creates awareness within people that they might be losing themselves in an identity fashioned for them by someone else.

Now I don't think that authenticity can be measured by girl's attraction, not at all. Authenticity can't be measured, or defined, by me or by anybody. That's why I called my post "an ode" and not "a definition" because I really can just appreciate the fact that I am capable of independent thought, and so is everybody else, and that those independent thoughts may differ. I don't take myself too seriously, but I do enjoy seeing other people being real. That's why I'm drawn towards this RSD forum. Some guys seem so real they inspire me. Hopefully I can be real enough to that I inspire a head or two. If not, I enjoy speaking my mind either way.

That said, I got to a certain point and almost left. I had to re-evaluate what I got from being here when I realized that integrity, being true to yourself, whatever you want to call it - I chose for the sake of this post "authenticity" but it all points to the same feeling, in my mind - really does eclipse women. It's HARDER than getting women. The story, for me, doesn't end there. But that's a whole other post.

And how does getting laid fit in? Well, quite simply, I chase girls because I fukken love 'em. What other reason do I need? I talk to them because I enjoy being around them, I kiss them when I am overcome with desire to do so, and so on. I surround myself with girls because I love girls. When I see a girl I want, I can definitely try and get her (and often succeed). It's amazing, though, how much less I have to try. Girls are definitely more than willing to put in a little legwork for me these days. But yah, as for the "intent to escalate to the lay", what's inauthentic about that? You're a man. Nobody else has to teach you to want a hot girl. You'll do that part all on your own (or why bother at all?)

Going deeper - if I'm at the club and I see a girl that triggers that lust in me, that lust where I want to be close to her, I want to pounce on her like a fukken li0n, but I let something hold me back, how authentic is that? What is it holding me back? An authentic desire to chode out against the wall? That said, there have been times when I saw a "turbo" but felt nothing. Does that mean I should approach her anyway, because I'm supposed to be this pickup dude? Both choding out and approaching can be a product of conditioning. The goal, really, is to completely break free of this process and do what you want to do. If you discover you don't actually want girls, and stop pursuing them, so be it. At least you're being real.

p.s. I LOL'd at the "you are the one that walks to the club full of girls, and not the other way around." I work at a club man, so for me it is the other way around! (on some nights). Seriously though you AND the girl walk through the door. She's putting herself there for the taking.


JoseArmando -

The chatroom has an echo. Call Geek Squad. That is all.


Good for you then. If you want to live on just pouncing on girls, then, more power to you. However, the philosophy you're espousing here is not very consistent with what people are trying to achieve here. I just wanted to clarify that this is a forum of a company that teaches men how to get laid--not to be authentic, but to get laid. Authenticity is just a means to an end. A guy who wants to be authentic with his religious convictions and his celibacy has no place here. Why? Because this place is about getting laid; not about getting authentic, ultimately at least.

Men come here, perhaps unaware of their own goals in life and with women, and as soon as they come in here, they are bombarded with community dogma about chode-isms and one-itis and abundance mentality as if they have to absorb these concepts to get the 'life' of authenticity. One form of social conditioning is just being replaced with another...there's nothing about authenticity here unless someone can prove it to me.

But this is an interesting topic, authenticity. I see authenticity in another form, the way existentialists might see it. Nobody exists in a vacuum--individuals more or less are conditioned by their historical and social situation. So authenticity to me is not just 'breaking' away from 'conditioning'--there's more to it than that. But this thread does not warrant such a response. PM me if you're interested in a discussion about authenticity.

"I want to pounce on her like a fukken li0n, but I let something hold me back, how authentic is that"--nothing inauthentic about that. I know guys who go out but are stifled as hell in a nightclub and would not approach girls. Not because they are chodes, but because these are religious guys, and they have embraced spiritual values. Reason why they are stifled as hell approaching a girl is because they are acting incongruently with their religious values. By not approaching the girl, they are acting authentically. So it's all about the values you establish--are you going to be an unbridled sexual animal? Did you make a resolve to be one? Then pouncing on a girl would be authentic. Holding back would be inauthentic. Are you going to be a dude who's going to pursue high ideals and it demands that you don't become promiscuous, then not approaching girls would be authentic. Pouncing on them would be inauthentic.
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#6
Suspect

Suspect

Trusted Member

Join Date: 01/24/2007 | Posts: 1237

Suspect's responses in bold

CuriousUno Wrote:
Good for you then. If you want to live on just pouncing on girls, then, more power to you. However, the philosophy you're espousing here is not very consistent with what people are trying to achieve here. I just wanted to clarify that this is a forum of a company that teaches men how to get laid--not to be authentic, but to get laid.

why is pouncing on girls not consistent with the goal of trying to get laid?

Authenticity is just a means to an end.

strongly disagree. authenticity is an ends to itself

A guy who wants to be authentic with his religious convictions and his celibacy has no place here. Why? Because this place is about getting laid; not about getting authentic, ultimately at least.

agreed, somewhat. why study how to fuck girls if you are religiously against the idea of fucking girls? that makes no sense.

Men come here, perhaps unaware of their own goals in life and with women, and as soon as they come in here, they are bombarded with community dogma about chode-isms and one-itis and abundance mentality as if they have to absorb these concepts to get the 'life' of authenticity.

ah that is a mistake. you do not have to 'absorb' any concepts to be authentic. that is the opposite of being authentic

One form of social conditioning is just being replaced with another...there's nothing about authenticity here unless someone can prove it to me.

but see you already ARE being authentic, just saying that, trusting your own judgement. that's the kind of thing I strive to see more of, even in the presence of a total hottie, high status AMOG, whatever. Just for a guy to continuously hold his personality. the freedom to do so in any situation is liberating, and girls find it attractive. what's not to like?

But this is an interesting topic, authenticity. I see authenticity in another form, the way existentialists might see it. Nobody exists in a vacuum--individuals more or less are conditioned by their historical and social situation. So authenticity to me is not just 'breaking' away from 'conditioning'--there's more to it than that. But this thread does not warrant such a response. PM me if you're interested in a discussion about authenticity.

well I don't want to get attached to the word authenticity if it has other meanings. I'm talking about a feeling, uninhibited might be another word for it, but alcohol associates too strongly with that. this is lack of inhibition without intoxication.

"I want to pounce on her like a fukken li0n, but I let something hold me back, how authentic is that"--nothing inauthentic about that. I know guys who go out but are stifled as hell in a nightclub and would not approach girls. Not because they are chodes, but because these are religious guys, and they have embraced spiritual values. Reason why they are stifled as hell approaching a girl is because they are acting incongruently with their religious values. By not approaching the girl, they are acting authentically. So it's all about the values you establish--are you going to be an unbridled sexual animal? Did you make a resolve to be one? Then pouncing on a girl would be authentic. Holding back would be inauthentic. Are you going to be a dude who's going to pursue high ideals and it demands that you don't become promiscuous, then not approaching girls would be authentic. Pouncing on them would be inauthentic.

I see religious values as another form of conditioning, but a religious person might disagree. Even that said, authenticity has value, and even with the case of a celibate religious man I'd have to ask where he draws the line. If he could approach and talk to girls without it being against his values, he could do that. He could take girls on dates, and date however he wanted within his beliefs of what is acceptable. You don't HAVE to fuck girls. Trust me, you can get a girl to want to be your GF without fucking her too. It's all about SEXUAL POTENTIAL not just overt sexual acts, which I could get into, in another post maybe. Actually that's a good topic for me to post on...
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#7
Red Leader

Red Leader

Trusted Member

Join Date: 08/22/2006 | Posts: 1729

suspect - loving your goods.

They are tasty and yum.
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#8
Suspect

Suspect

Trusted Member

Join Date: 01/24/2007 | Posts: 1237

Glad you enjoy it RedLeader

This conversation sparked a huge thought storm, all recorded in this thread:

http://www.rsdnation.com/showthread.php?t=30346

Post on "Sexual Potential" still to come
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#9

CuriousUno

Senior Member

Join Date: 07/03/2008 | Posts: 294

"why is pouncing on girls not consistent with the goal of trying to get laid?" I never said that. What I'm suggesting is that being authentic, which is what you are ultimately after as you say, is NOT consistent with the company's goals. A dude who wants to be authentic with his high spiritual ideals does not belong here. Perhaps if you started a company where guys would practise authenticity, he could belong there. But not here, because his authenticity would perhaps require him to make a vow of celibacy, which means, well, making seduction and approaching girls unimportant or even unnecessary.

"strongly disagree. authenticity is an ends to itself."

Wrong. And I'll explain.

"agreed, somewhat. why study how to fuck girls if you are religiously against the idea of fucking girls? that makes no sense." You are missing the point here. I am just clarifying, like throughout the whole post, that people here do not seek authenticity, but to seek to be better with girls. You are right, it makes no sense. A guy who is religiously against the idea of fucking girls has no business studying the subject of it. But what if he seeks authenticity? Should he come here to get it? No because he has no business studying the subject of fucking girls, which is what this company is about.

"ah that is a mistake. you do not have to 'absorb' any concepts to be authentic. that is the opposite of being authentic " You are being disingenuous here. What is it you're doing when you watch the Blueprint DVD's? When you are reading these posts of 'glory'? When you are getting coached in a bootcamp? You are 'absorbing' principles and concepts of being a sexworthy guy. You are not a blank page and you are not acting from some kind of void. You are acting from desires and values that you yourself have absorbed and appropriated. Acting from those values and desires is what authenticity is.

"but see you already ARE being authentic, just saying that, trusting your own judgement. that's the kind of thing I strive to see more of, even in the presence of a total hottie, high status AMOG, whatever. Just for a guy to continuously hold his personality. the freedom to do so in any situation is liberating, and girls find it attractive. what's not to like?" Stop complimenting me and get back to the subject. Wouldn't you consider soaking up RSD type material another form of social conditioning?

"I see religious values as another form of conditioning, but a religious person might disagree. "

I see religious values as conditioning too, my friends have no problem with that. Conditioning to me is just training, as in 'body-conditioning'. Conditioning only exists because values exist. You are conditioning yourself, or being conditioned, because there is a need to be consistently congruent to those values. Many here on RSD are trying to break from this corporate-chode type of social conditioning because they don't want a tame, domesticated, mediocre life where parties don't happen. And so, they start to embrace RSD values and go on with conditioning from there, just so they can be consistently be that 'sex-worthy man'. People embrace religious values and 'condition' themselves with dogma, a disciplined life, religious texts, etc because perhaps they've lived life and find it terribly unfulfilling. They intuitively sense the truth of religion and seek to be consistent to its values. They seek solace in God. Think of Ciaran. These values do not exist in a vacuum, they are handed to us students from the teachers of this world. It's easy to choose values and to ask the teachers to teach us and dedicate our lives to it and then to act authentically. The problem is choosing the RIGHT values and then to find TRUSTWORTHY teachers.

"Even that said, authenticity has value, and even with the case of a celibate religious man I'd have to ask where he draws the line. If he could approach and talk to girls without it being against his values, he could do that. He could take girls on dates, and date however he wanted within his beliefs of what is acceptable. You don't HAVE to fuck girls. Trust me, you can get a girl to want to be your GF without fucking her too. It's all about SEXUAL POTENTIAL not just overt sexual acts, which I could get into, in another post maybe. Actually that's a good topic for me to post on..."

That was just an example. But to answer your question, that ultimately depends on the celibate man. But he is celibate for a reason we may not know now. My question would be: why would he want to approach and talk to girls in the first place if he is celibate? Why would he want to become some kind of approach machine?

Essentially, when you approach a girl and date her, you have an agenda (Tim would call it intent). For Community guys--the agenda is to go for the f-close. If they fail, it wouldn't matter, not because they are 'enjoyin gthe moment' or are accessing the power of 'now', but because they know that another girl will come along. There's "otha fish in the sea" as they say. For a celibate religious guy, why would he approach? If it his conviction to evangelize hot girls (LOL) then sure, he could 'authentically' approach. In that case, his reasons for approaching are not religiously genuine because he's only targetting hot girls. He should be approaching both guys and girls and everything in between. On the other hand, why would he want to approach that turbo in the club? Because he thinks that she will be some kind of big spiritual helper to him? Is it because he wants to have just a good 'time' being with her? Most guys I know who are like that are too busy for 'dating' and would consider it a waste of time if he were to just hang out with a turbo who probably has no interest in hanging out (but in sex and fun times), who probably has nothing interesting to say to him, and who he can't see himself sharing a future with. Besides, most of my religious friends have met their wives and husbands at church. None of them practised 'approaching', none of them probably even know that pick-up companies exist!

Anyway, this has been interesting.
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#10
Suspect

Suspect

Trusted Member

Join Date: 01/24/2007 | Posts: 1237

CuriousUno in plain type.

Suspect's responses in [B]bold[/B]

Previous responses in [I]italic[/I]

------------------------------------------------


"why is pouncing on girls not consistent with the goal of trying to get laid?"

I never said that. What I'm suggesting is that being authentic, which is what you are ultimately after as you say, is NOT consistent with the company's goals. A dude who wants to be authentic with his high spiritual ideals does not belong here. Perhaps if you started a company where guys would practise authenticity, he could belong there. But not here, because his authenticity would perhaps require him to make a vow of celibacy, which means, well, making seduction and approaching girls unimportant or even unnecessary.

Which company goal(s) is authenticity inconsistent with? Getting laid? In my experience, being authentic has helped with that very much. I can't speak for people with "high spiritual ideas", those who are celibate, or gay men - or even "company goals" for that matter (I'm not affiliated with RSD in any way!). I do have a hard time believing anybody would fail to get something from being authentic.

"strongly disagree. authenticity is an ends to itself."

Wrong. And I'll explain.

Authenticity can be an ends to itself, if you care for it to be. I don't know about RSD or anybody else. I can authentically say that is true for me. How can anybody disagree with that?

"agreed, somewhat. why study how to fuck girls if you are religiously against the idea of fucking girls? that makes no sense."

You are missing the point here. I am just clarifying, like throughout the whole post, that people here do not seek authenticity, but to seek to be better with girls. You are right, it makes no sense. A guy who is religiously against the idea of fucking girls has no business studying the subject of it. But what if he seeks authenticity? Should he come here to get it? No because he has no business studying the subject of fucking girls, which is what this company is about.

LOL this is silly. Yes, monks, eunuchs and gay men need not apply.

"ah that is a mistake. you do not have to 'absorb' any concepts to be authentic. that is the opposite of being authentic " You are being disingenuous here. What is it you're doing when you watch the Blueprint DVD's? When you are reading these posts of 'glory'? When you are getting coached in a bootcamp? You are 'absorbing' principles and concepts of being a sexworthy guy. You are not a blank page and you are not acting from some kind of void. You are acting from desires and values that you yourself have absorbed and appropriated. Acting from those values and desires is what authenticity is.

Have you considered the possibility I can learn from a person (or group) through the filter of my own judgement and experience? I focus on what appears true to me, and live how I see fit. Thank you much.

"but see you already ARE being authentic, just saying that, trusting your own judgement. that's the kind of thing I strive to see more of, even in the presence of a total hottie, high status AMOG, whatever. Just for a guy to continuously hold his personality. the freedom to do so in any situation is liberating, and girls find it attractive. what's not to like?" Stop complimenting me and get back to the subject. Wouldn't you consider soaking up RSD type material another form of social conditioning?

There was more to that statement than just a compliment. And conditioning implies that you are passive and being acted upon. Autheniticity implies you are being proactive, and acting upon yourself. If you let RSD act upon you then yah I'd call that social conditioning. I'd also call that "missing the point"

"I see religious values as another form of conditioning, but a religious person might disagree. "

I see religious values as conditioning too, my friends have no problem with that. Conditioning to me is just training, as in 'body-conditioning'. Conditioning only exists because values exist. You are conditioning yourself, or being conditioned, because there is a need to be consistently congruent to those values. Many here on RSD are trying to break from this corporate-chode type of social conditioning because they don't want a tame, domesticated, mediocre life where parties don't happen. And so, they start to embrace RSD values and go on with conditioning from there, just so they can be consistently be that 'sex-worthy man'. People embrace religious values and 'condition' themselves with dogma, a disciplined life, religious texts, etc because perhaps they've lived life and find it terribly unfulfilling. They intuitively sense the truth of religion and seek to be consistent to its values. They seek solace in God. Think of Ciaran. These values do not exist in a vacuum, they are handed to us students from the teachers of this world. It's easy to choose values and to ask the teachers to teach us and dedicate our lives to it and then to act authentically. The problem is choosing the RIGHT values and then to find TRUSTWORTHY teachers.

That's a personal choice. I still fail to see how anything here justifies a lack of integrity aka authenticity. I don't think blind acceptance of things being taught to you counts. Everything should be tempered against your own experience, explored when found to be true, and discarded when not needed.

"Even that said, authenticity has value, and even with the case of a celibate religious man I'd have to ask where he draws the line. If he could approach and talk to girls without it being against his values, he could do that. He could take girls on dates, and date however he wanted within his beliefs of what is acceptable. You don't HAVE to fuck girls. Trust me, you can get a girl to want to be your GF without fucking her too. It's all about SEXUAL POTENTIAL not just overt sexual acts, which I could get into, in another post maybe. Actually that's a good topic for me to post on..."

That was just an example. But to answer your question, that ultimately depends on the celibate man. But he is celibate for a reason we may not know now. My question would be: why would he want to approach and talk to girls in the first place if he is celibate? Why would he want to become some kind of approach machine?

That's like saying "why would a gay guy approach girls?" Stupid question. I can already see the argument coming up "well what if he just wants them as friends" or "what if he wants to find a wife" - well, then it's pretty simple. That's why he'd approach them.

Essentially, when you approach a girl and date her, you have an agenda (Tim would call it intent). For Community guys--the agenda is to go for the f-close. If they fail, it wouldn't matter, not because they are 'enjoyin gthe moment' or are accessing the power of 'now', but because they know that another girl will come along. There's "otha fish in the sea" as they say. For a celibate religious guy, why would he approach? If it his conviction to evangelize hot girls (LOL) then sure, he could 'authentically' approach. In that case, his reasons for approaching are not religiously genuine because he's only targetting hot girls. He should be approaching both guys and girls and everything in between. On the other hand, why would he want to approach that turbo in the club? Because he thinks that she will be some kind of big spiritual helper to him? Is it because he wants to have just a good 'time' being with her? Most guys I know who are like that are too busy for 'dating' and would consider it a waste of time if he were to just hang out with a turbo who probably has no interest in hanging out (but in sex and fun times), who probably has nothing interesting to say to him, and who he can't see himself sharing a future with. Besides, most of my religious friends have met their wives and husbands at church. None of them practised 'approaching', none of them probably even know that pick-up companies exist!


Once again: as far as pursuing sex (with women), married men, monks, priests, eunuchs, Micheal Jackson and gay men need not apply. But I refuse to believe authenticity has no value to these people.


Anyway, this has been interesting.


Indeed :D
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