December 13th, 2018
Bootcamp with TD: Gem found & reposted
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Join Date: 11/08/2006 | Posts: 6828

I just had a bootcamp with Tyler Durden here in Honolulu. I learned some valuable lessons that I thought were worth sharing here. This is cross posted from my local board, so there will be a few inside jokes but it's quite readable overall.

, TD says Hi.


skeezo and I met up with td at the W hotel lobby thursday night.

If you read about TD in The Game, you would expect his seminar to be along the lines of, "Ok, first, you neg, then you peg, then you segue, blah blah" but to my shock it was to be nothing like that at all.

TD told us that years ago, when he learned that Style would be writing a book on the game, he got together with his RSD instructors and told them that eventually, people would get wise to opinion openers and routines, etc. He didn't want people to be asking him "[=rgb(46, 139, 87)]Are you one of those pickup guys[/]?" etc. So he resolved to create a pickup style that would require no routines, no canned opinion openers. Last night he set about introducing us to this new style of pickup.

He said that naturals get laid all the time. Are PUAs any less cool than those guys? No. So PUAs should not need to do anything that naturals don't do.

he talked about a few things:

Separating the way you regard a person from the value they bring to the interaction. A hot girl brings all kinds of value: potential sex, validation, etc. You have to separate that value from the fact that she is a human being too, and see her as a human being without being affected by the value she is bringing to the table. Imagine that all of her value is in a pile between you two and you're looking at her not at the pile of value.

Not stepping up to her standard but instead setting your own more powerful standard and getting her to live up to it. You do this by being unreactive and getting her to react to you. You make bold statements, create a vacuum in the conversation by not saying anything afterward, and by doing so, pressure her into filling the gaps and thereby investing in the conversation and jumping into your frame.

You can't ever come across as seeking any kind of reaction from her; if you do, she knows that she can control your reality by the way she responds to you, and she will lose interest.

Get out of the mindset of thinking of what to say next before the chick even finishes talking. That is by nature reaction seeking. This is an important, but subtle piece.

It sounds simple, and I think you've all heard some variation of the above before, but he had an interesting way of forcing us to see the light.

He told us that we were not to use ANY canned material or openers tonight. We should not say anything that we didn't feel like saying. If this advice were coming from anyone other than TD, I would have been tempted to reach over and pull on his face to make sure it wasn't (a local mate) hiding behind a mask.

The point of this exercise was to teach us to subcommunicate our coolness rather than hide behind routines. Also, we need to see how easy it is to hook sets without using any magic openers or canned material.

TD's girlfriend Roxana showed up in time to get dinner. She is hot. Way freakin hotter than Lance Mason's girlfriend, or Steve P's girlfriend, You-are-so-in-my-way-Will's girlfriend, Chet Rowland's girlfriend, Brian-of- -interview-fame's girlfriend, and on, and on. She definitely has a better body than style's girlfriend.

We went to Ocean's and ordered pupus for dinner. Roxana sent me into a 3 set seated at the bar. I was not allowed to use opinion openers, so I just went in Big O style, and of course it worked. I stole one of the girls' chairs and I really wanted to use canned material but instead I forced myself to improvise some bullshit about a conversation that came up at work that day ("How come I can't find fresh young coconuts in hawaii?") they were loving it. Roxana came up and pulled me out of the set. I thought I had done something wrong but she was just checking on me.

After we finished our food, TD brought me back to that same set. He opened with something about animal sounds. He started mooing at the girls. At first they were like WTF? but he held his ground. He didn't care what their reaction was. It didn't affect him either way. He was drilling into them with his eye contact and presence. They cracked and he started getting IOIs from both of the girls; they started asking him questions and feeding him their fries.

I was astounded. I mean, I've always heard it said that you can open with anything and it will work, but I've always thought that meant "anything will work some of the time, it's just hit or miss, and you need hi tech openers to get it to work consistently"

TD talked about watching naturals fuck up all the time, have shitty comebacks to shit tests, but because their subcommunication was good, it didn't matter. He said that if he made the same fuck ups, he would have ejected or would have lost state, but his natural friends were totally unaffected. That is how you have to be. By using these shitty openers and just holding our ground and not losing state when we don't get a warm reception, we are cultivating this ability to be nonreactive.

I learned that my subcommunication is really great. I can open with just about anything. Here are some of the wacked out openers I was forced to use by TD. Keep in mind, every single set hooked.

Animal sounds -- cow, monkey. This worked great on the hotter sets but ug sets thought we were calling them cows.

"I like salad." Dude man, if you subcommunicate this right, girls just step into your frame with shit like, "[=rgb(255, 0, 255)]ooh. I like tossing salad[/]!"

"so how's your night going?"

"hey, what are you guys drinking."

"where did you get those earrings."

TD was really impressed with my game. He said that my game was "smokin', RSD instructor caliber." He was suspicious that I was using canned material to be getting the kinds of responses I was getting but I wasn't. I was just riffing. it was one of the most insane, enlightening, mindfuck experiences of my life: realizing that no shit, I'm cool enough to get attraction from girls just by being myself, as long as I don't look like I'm seeking a reaction from them or want anything from them.

this is the trap of routines: we design them to get a reaction, and this sets us up to expect a positive reaction from the girls when we use them, so when they don't work as planned, we are at a loss, and it throws us off. either we don't know what to do and we eject or we feel like shit because our routine tanked and the girls detect how we feel and lose interest.

keep in mind these girls I was opening were among the hottest girls I've opened since coming to hawaii. in fact the hotter the girls, the better they responded to this new style of game. I was getting mad IOIs: girls were sniffing my armpits and saying I smelled like "abercrombie," pinching my nipples, bumping into me on 'accident' it was retarded. it made me realize what portion of my results were from routines and what portion was just from how I was carrying myself and subcommunicating.

Here is a sample interaction:

[Skeezo opens a two set, I go toward one of the girls to isolate]
Big O: I like salad.
Girl: [=rgb(255, 0, 255)]oh, is this the topic of the night, you guys are just going around hitting on girls by asking them about this[/]
Big O: Oh that's so cute she thinks we're hitting on her. Actually, before I hit on you, you're going to have to tell me three things about yourself that will make me want to get to know you better.
Girl: [=rgb(255, 0, 255)]Well, I blah blah blah. I like yellow, but only bright yellow[/]. [I'm wearing a bright yellow shirt] [=rgb(255, 0, 255)]and blah blah blah.[/]
Big O: Ok, cool, I'll start hitting on you now. Is it ok if I don't have a lame pick up line.
Girl: [=rgb(255, 0, 255)]Yes. That was incredible how you defused that awkward moment[/]
Big O: [I start quickly hitting her arm, 'hitting on her'. Girl gets it and laughs]
[I pull her out of her seat, spin her around, sit down, and pull her between my legs. game over. she starts asking me all kinds of questions. we see who has the nicer ass. she definitely did. skeezo's girl keeps suggesting that they go to the dance floor and eventually they do. later that night, this girl totally 'bumps' into me on the dance floor. she made damn sure I felt her whole package. ]

Keep in mind, TD's only goal for the night was to get us to do this wacked out shit and make sure there was no difference in our heart rate before and after. Lo and behold, after that first set, there was no difference. Let me tell you guys that last night was the smoothest game I have ever run, and I didn't have to use routines. I didn't feel like I was working hard to get attraction, I wasn't plowing. It was the easiest, most natural thing. In the words of badboy, it was like taking a shit.

I was just so taken aback by how well everything was going that I would just keep chatting and not advance the sarge. So at the end of the night I started forcing myself to qualify, and close. Tyler commanded me to turn around and open whatever happened to be there with a compliment. it was a cute korean girl standing by herself. luckily she had big heart shaped earrings. I opened with "ooh, where did you get those earrings?" at first her expression darkened for a moment, but when she saw that I was unfazed by her display, she brightened up and answered my question. it was on from that point forward. I #closed. The next day, TD tells
me that the girl had a boyfriend; he saw them making out as we left the club.

at the end of the night, TD told me that I needed to be more alpha, do more shit like moving girls around, getting in their faces, caveman, etc. He said I needed to cut down on hand gestures, not to gesture with my hands as much, as it is somewhat girly.

All in all last night was an amazing experience. We weren't thinking about 'club value' or silly 'wing rules'. TD and I would sometimes walk up to a seated set together and open, which is supposed to be a huge no no. We didn't feel the need to do magic tricks or mind reads.

I no longer think that 'fake it till you make it' is the best route to success. There is a place for routines, but you need to know what it's like not to use them, not to use high-tech openers, and just be chill, relaxed and unreactive. Then, when you start busting out with routines, damn. it will be smooth.


The second night we were at the W. I opened a two set of girls and it hooked. TD comes in, turns to my target and shouts "I will fuck you up." The girl says "[=rgb(255, 0, 255)]how[/]?" to which he responds, "Ways you can't even imagine." The obstacle drags the girl away. I'm thinking, "Shit, I just got blown out by TD," when suddenly, a bouncer comes over and asks TD to come with him. The girl must have complained about TD to the bouncer. TD brings his girlfriend and follows the bouncer.

As it turns out, the bouncer is the target's BROTHER. Any other dude would have gotten kicked out of the club, but TD manages to convince the bouncer that his sister is lying, then he games the sister and makes her love him, all within 10 minutes.

In response to the girl's accusations, all TD said was, "Dude, I'm stone sober." The bouncer said, "[=rgb(46, 139, 87)]So are you saying she's lying[/]?" "I'm not saying anyone's lying. I just didn't say those things." The girl starts to rage and whine. She looks really bad. TD is totally unreactive. Then TD does something to game up the girl and she jumps into his arms and says something like "[=rgb(255, 0, 255)]I like you, you're cool. I'm sorry I said those things about you, that was stupid[/]." And the bouncer lets him go.

TD sends me into a two set of girls. I open my target by tapping her on the shoulder and smiling and her friend thinks that we already know each other. I start gaming her up and she can't stop laughing. I include the friend and now they both can't stop laughing. I bring them over to TD and Roxanne and introduce them. TD pulls skeezo into the set and I start talking to the target. Target's bf walks up so I grab the obstacle and isolate her and #close. thanks skeezo!

TD says that isolating the target is a very "MM" thing to do. Whodathunk. HE doesn't even bother isolating. He just goes up to the target, attracts, force qualifies, and then #closes. He gets like 10 numbers a night this way and like 30% of them bite afterward.

The second night ended up being much like the first. TD tells me afterwards that my game is "super smooth," that he can't believe I'm spending time on anything else in my life, and that if I want to start getting laid from cold approaches I just need to keep doing what I'm doing, and that it will happen once, then twice, then every week, and then pretty much every day. I just need to be more "aggressive and dominant." cool. but was this worth $2000 null I would find out for sure on the third night.


By the third night of staying up till 3am, my voice was shot to hell. I opened two sets with Roxanne but they totally tanked. Not because of my voice, interestingly: the girls in my set just can't stop staring at Roxanne. They keep wanting to talk to her and they can't understand why I would want to talk to them. haha. what a paradox.

The rest of the night TD was on my ass making me do the most fucked up crazy ass ninja shit. He made me go into a seated set in the corner with 2 guys and 1 girl and no place to sit and open with "Hey, how's your guys' night going?" TD came in after I opened and we actually got major attraction from the girl in the set.

He made me take off my shirt, and just go up to sets of girls and stare at them. Oh man, I thought. Not here, not at the W. At one point, I felt like I was going to throw up. TD pulled me aside and said, "Oh.. sorry man, you must be caring. You need to stop caring for this to work."

Let me tell you guys, once you stop caring, going out and "sarging" (or "being social") just becomes 100% fun. You don't care if you get blown out, but you still get the rush when things go well. It's the only way to be, really.

He made me go straight up to the fat chick in a group, grab her, and open with "I love you!" The whole time my face was within 2-6 inches of hers. She was ready to bang me. There is merit to ignoring the group and dealing with the obstacles as they arrive.

He sends me into a mixed two set where the dude is this HUUUUGE, CUT SAMOAN dude. I'm like "uhhh.... are you sure?" and he's like "Don't worry man, I've got your back. I'm tyler FUCKING durden!" By the end of the set the dude was shaking my hand and shit.

Another time he makes me open a girl and ignore her friends. When the cockblock comes by to take her friend to the bathroom, I do as TD instructed: I grab the cockblock and opinion open her. I hit her with my tightest stacking and fractionation. She is totally sucked in. My target sees what I am doing and goes DDB on me and is like, "[=rgb(255, 0, 255)]what's your name[/]??" I must have looked like the most socially skilled dude she ever met. too bad she had a boyfriend.

So later TD and I are talking and he tells me to go open the set behind me. He says, "don't be afraid to look!" so I look and the girl sees me checking her out. TD sarcastically says, "Uh oh, not only is she with some guy, but you have been hovering next to her, and now she just saw you look at her. Now go open."

I walk up and tap her on the shoulder. She's a beautiful, beautiful hapa girl.

Big O: I like salad.
hapa girl: [smiles] [=rgb(255, 0, 255)]I think that's amazing![/]
amog: [=rgb(46, 139, 87)]I've heard that line before[/].
Big O: [ignoring amog] I especially like caesar salad...

inexplicably, TD pulls me away from the set. I think he is purposely trying to disorient me. I reopen the set that went to the bathroom, TD laughs watching me AMOG a dude in that set and pulls me away yet again. Now I'm standing in the hall talking to him and the beautiful hapa girl from the last set stands up.

Hapa girl: "[=rgb(255, 0, 255)]Come here! I want to talk to you[/]."
TD: [grabs me firmly by the shoulder] No, you can't have him!
Big O: [to TD] what is that girl up to?
TD: I have no idea.

I starting dancing to the music, knowing full well this is watching.

Hapa girl: [=rgb(255, 0, 255)]Come here! I think you're hot![/]
TD: No, you can't talk to him.

I will forever be haunted by the beautiful hapa girl. Why did TD grab me and keep me from talking to her? I never saw her again that night. She could have been my girlfriend.

TD told me that if I want to pull 10s from the club, I have to be super aggressive and dominant, totally unpredictable and uncontrollable. I have to be fucking posessed by satan. For some reason that last line really resonates with me.

I ran the most high energy game I've ever run in my life. I wasn't possessed by satan, but perhaps a lesser devil. At one point, TD just grabs some girl walking by and says, "I don't believe you've met my friend." I grab her and the whole time I keep her off balance with a combination of gibberish, dominant kino, and improvised bullshit. Near the end of the sarge, I picked her up and moved her across the hall. I grabbed her and taught her some new dance moves. This girl has a boyfriend who is like captain of the honolulu jiu jitsu academy but I still got her number. On her way out with her hulking bf she turned and gave me a smile I will never forget.

Another way of looking at it is this: the way all of us have been gaming up to now betrays an underlying sense that we don't deserve hot girls. The way we've been running game, it's more like, if we open them and they walk off, it's a confirmation of our underlying belief that our "game" isn't good enough and therefore we are unworthy of that set. If we did believe we deserved them, we wouldn't be afraid to do things like grab girls who keep walking after you open them and pull them in closer.

We need to believe to our very cores that fucking hot girls is our manifest destiny, a given, a fait accompli. Until then, we are just spitting routines from a safe distance, bodies angled away from the group so if they don't hook immediately we can turn away and protect ourselves like the pussies we're acting like and hence are.

TD looks at it like this. In Homer's age, women were like cattle. Do you think Odysseus ever thought for a second that a woman was more worthy than he? That's the way we should think about women. The fact that today women are allowed to run around all dressed up inside of a club should not make a difference.

Big O

"A girl is like a hockey puck."
-- Tyler Durden
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