THE FORUMS

Background - a few things to remember:

1) When BFdestroying you walk a tightrope between evoking too many bad feelings
and having them anchoured to you, and getting the chick to want to dump her BF.
Don't forget that your end goal is to f-close, not to break her up for some
other dude to enjoy.

2) It is preferable that you don't make it appear that you want her to dump her
boyfriend. Rather, make the idea appear to be something from within her (more
of a Socratic thing, than a direct thing).

3) While BFdestroying, you must direct the convo. to make her prompt you to
tell her how you would treat a woman. Make her work it out of you, because
she's worked up, and wants to know if she's got a fair deal or not.

4) You must REFRAME all behaviour to appear like insecure nice guy behaviour.

Even behaviour that -WE- as ASFers would use on girls (such as not agreeing to
LTR) is to be REFRAMED as being nice guy behaviour, as someone who is too
afraid to be decisive and go for what they really want, since they are too
afraid that they will lose it once they've been emotionally vulnerable (as will
be explained below). All behaviour can be REFRAMED.

5) By making the guy look like a "NICE GUY", you are making him the most
sexually unappealing guy conceivable. Once you've done this, there is NOTHING
that he can do to get back into her good books, as you've put him into a
predicament where anything that he does will be interpreted by his GF as being
insecure. So, if he's too distant, and he makes up for it by buying her
flowers -> he's insecure. If he's too needy, and he makes up for it by getting
a life -> he's insecure. You are trying to DIFFUSE his outer glossy shell, and
give the girl a window into his inner workings, so that he no longer appears
"mysterious" in any way. You make her understand him so well, that she likes
him more as a person, but no longer has any sexual desire for him.

6) Rather than re-explaining EVing, I'll just quote some MrSEX4uNYC archive, to
give the basic frame that you're working with WHILE you are using the stuff
that I'm mentioning. Without using this at the same time, my shit is USELESS:
"A major point though is that if her relationship to her boyfriend was so good,
what is she doing sitting out for coffee with you? This does not need to be
stated by you. It is obvious. Your job is to find out what SHE wants from you
and how you plan to demonstrate that you can provide it to her through your
stories about yourself. Of course you need lots of stories about yourself
dealing with women in the same fashion that she likes to be handles herself.
This stuff seeps in and makes her think of you as "her type" without you even
complimenting her once." (MrSEX4uNYC)


The tactic:
What you're looking to do here is tear the guy down to a NICE GUY, while making
it look like you're actually STICKING UP FOR HIM! Your goal is to make him one
of those guys that a girl would go out on a date with, like as a person, and
feel bad for having to LJBF at the end of the night when he tries to kiss her
at the door.

So how do you do that? Almost invariably, LTRs have certain problems (which
any of you who've had LTRs are morbidly familiar with):

-jealousy related spats (KEY)

-neediness

-failure to commit or being too distant

-abusive behaviour (be it physical or mental)

-psychological withdrawal, to gain certainty in the relationship (ie: in LTRs
each party will withdraw to see if the other will pursue periodically, to
assure themselves that the LTR is solid.. this is dimestore psychology, and
easily observable in any relationship)

-being irresponsible (not holding up share of chores, etc.)

-not being assertive in bed (KEY)

-being into S&M and other stuff in bed, that the girl thinks is too far out

-getting angry/frustrated when he initiates sex, and girl is not in the mood
(KEY)

-being too predictable, not passionate

OK, there are some basic ones. I will now break these down to show you how I
would roughly respond to any of these complaints, in a way that I appear to be
sticking up for the BF, but am inadvertantly BFdestroying him. This is not the
sum total of the routine, but simply the raw fuel that you are employing, while
using standard kino/bodylanguage/tonality etc. Remember, that you may not
necessarily want to start escalating your sexual state, until she is convinced
that her BF is lame-ass, otherwise she may potentially realize that you are
trying to pull one over on her. This is not the rule, but simply something to
be considered based on your evaluation of the circumstance.

Jealousy:

"You have to understand that this guy really appreciates you, because you're
probably the best girl that he ever got, or ever will get. I know that... you
care about this guy (maybe sp)... but there's just a certain equilibrium where
if you've done this guy a favour by being with him and he's not equipped to
handle it, since he knows that he'll never get a girl like you again if he
walks out, that he's just constantly frustrated and panicked that you'll leave.
It's not his fault.

Neediness:

"You've got to understand that for this guy you are his entire world. He cares
about you so much, that everything else in the world is meaningless to him.
You are his only source of pleasure, and without you he knows that...he's
nothing. You can't blame him, he just doesn't have anything else going for
him, so he needs you."

Failure to commit:

"It's not that this guy doesn't love you. He does. Its just that deep down he
has a fear that... you're too good for him... and that you'll realize it and be
like, you know....you just have to dump this guy.... and then he'll be left
emotionally destroyed because he made himself vulnerable. Yes yes I know that
you wouldn't do that to him, but its just that with (x,y,z into consideration -
bring up imbalance struck earlier in the convo) he knows that you could get
other guys (SP)...like me...I just think that he's not an emotionally secure
person, and you've gotta cut him some slack."

Abusive behaviour:

"It's not that this guy doesn't love you. Its that he loves you too much, and
just can't handle it. He's not emotionally available, and because he knows
that you're the best he's ever had, he can't handle all of these things that
he's going through emotionally. All his life he probably wasn't very good with
women, and women weren't interested in him.. So now that he's got this girl, he
doesn't know how to handle it. (plus use the he doesn't want to be emotionally
vulnerable, because he's such a loser ass that he can't handle it as per above
etc.)

Periodic Psychological Withdrawal:

"(use combinations from material I've written.. Rather than downplaying it for
the perfectly normal behaviour that it is, magnify it by making it appear to be
a sign of insecurity, that is typically displayed when nice guys who can't get
girls get stuck into a relationship with a girl that is too good for them)"

Being Irresponsible:

"Its not that this guy doesn't -want- to do these things. Its just that he's
so overwhelmed by all of the things that are going on, that he just can't keep
up these responsibilities. Yes yes, I know that x,y,z aren't that much, but
he's not in an emotionally healthy place right now, and he just can't handle it
(you mirror this against yourself, the image of a REAL/STRONG/COMPETENT man,
basically trying to make him seem like a little boy)"

Not being assertive in bed (THIS IS KEY, AND IS VERY OFTEN THE BEST ONE TO USE

- VERY COMMON)

"It's not that he doesn't want to excite you. It's just that he's so
overwhelmed being with a girl like you, that he's not equipped to handle your
sexual needs. It's like the typical case of the rich daughter who marries the
labourer. At first the labourer is so exstatic to have this gorgeous girl
(point to her) wanting him.. But in the end, he cheats on her with some white
trash mullet haired girl, because he knows that that's who he really belongs
with, and that's who makes him feel good about himself. You shouldn't hold his
lack of assertiveness in bed against him, because its just a reflection of his
insecurity. With the right girl, any guy can be a stud in the sack .. its not
hard, you just have to take CONTROL (perhaps show some controlling kino here,
to get her turned on)." then transition to some HOT sex talk, where you
inadvertantly spill how much you need to take control in bed.

Guy into weird stuff in bed (S&M etc) when she hates it:

"It's not that this guy doesn't love you.. Its just that he uses these things
to objectify you, because he knows that he's never had a girl like you, and
probably never will once you're gone.. so he doesn't want to "make love",
because he doesn't want to make himself emotionally vulnerable to you.. but he
still wants sex,
so he has to turn it into a perverse game, to keep his insecurities from
overwhelming him"

Guy gets angry when he initiates sex and she's not interested (ANOTHER KEY ONE
TO PECK AT.. VERY COMMON)

"The thing is, that this guy loves you, and he's just exasperated that.... he's
completely impotent to turn you on.. he just can't turn you on, and he knows
that, so he gets frustrated.. Its like when you want to have
sex...withme.....its like, I know that its your job to get the girl turned on.
Girls need a man who knows that they want, and how to get it. When a girl says
'no', but at the same time she loves this guy (sp), it often means please turn
me on more.. please, I want you to be more attentive to me.. (this totally
mindfucks the girl, as it is an EXTREMELY COMMON part of the LTR cycle, that
once sex becomes stagnant -> foreplay nearly ceases. Because chemically women
are addicted to OXITOCINS which are released by touch, and it is more
testosterone that they get from sex, most women will hate sex once it degrades
to a lack of foreplay. However, most LTRs have this problem, so you must
exploit it.. I'm ceasely amazed by how much girls in LTRs PERK RIGHT UP the
second that you imply that you're attentive even in LTRs)

Being too predictable, not passionate:

"Its not that this guy doesn't love you. He does. Its just that he's so
comfortable with you now.. and feels so close to you, that you're more like a
sister to him.. Like a special sister, but someone who he doesn't feel that he
has to do all these things for anymore, because your relationship is so secure
and so predictable.. there's no need for all that excitement, because he knows
that nothing will change.. Some guys deal with true love that way.. I dunno,
for me, I think that if you really love someone, you have to do x,y,z
(established earlier in convo) to keep it fresh. Like if you are really a real
man who loves his woman, you have to do x,y,z to keep it fresh. But really,
its not that he doesn't love you, its just that he loves you so much that he
doesn't see the need."


So, remember that you are focusing on destroying the guy's sexual appeal, by
making him seem too familiar, and easy to understand. People generally get
'one-itis' for those who are challenging and hard to understand. By making the
BF seem both easy to understand, and very insecure/nice/beta in the meantime,
the relationship will likely not last the week.

Just remember not to be the LJBF who counsels her on her problems. Instead,
you are constantly getting her worked up by doing the EVing that MrSEX4uNYC
discusses in his archive. Ideally, she must be getting both turned off the guy
by what you're doing, and getting turned on by YOU, and the conversation
NATURALLY LEADS TO HOW YOU ARE DIFFERENT, AND -IDEAL- FOR WHAT SHE WANTS. The
natural flow of conversation must indirectly lead to exposing your highly
desirable qualities.

She is getting turned on by the DIRECT CONTRAST between you and her boyfriend.

You do not offer your qualities directly, but highlight them by pointing out
that you understand where her BFs negative qualities are insecure. Getting her
to beg you to tell her how you treat women is all the better, and if it is
going well can likely be expected. Act reluctant to tell her if necessary,
though not to the extent that you are sending an SOI that her getting with you
is not a program that you're down with.

Once you have her worked up, use standard material to move in, and its a
done deal.

TylerDurden