THE FORUMS

October 23rd, 2017
Russell Brand Tears Journalist Apart
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#21
QueensBully

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Join Date: 03/30/2013 | Posts: 537

illusio wrote:
Tyler wrote:
(...)I wonder if he could've done a better job of explaining to Russell where the flaws in his understandings were, but he may have felt it wouldn't have been effective.Interestingly I'm concerned with the exact same problems as Russell.  I hate the destruction of the environment and the gap in wealth, but I believe it will be solved in different ways than massive wealth redistribution -- rather it should be focused on putting the education and infrastructure in place that maximizes people's chances of being self reliant.
Tyler wrote:
Sadly it's like watching history repeat itself:  someone grows up poor and seeing all the exploitation, believes the solution is some form of communism.
I'm also interested in those issues and the funny thing is I don't really see a contradiction between Russel Brand's ideas and the way Tyler sees these things. I do definitely not think communism is a good solution. And I also don't really understand Russel Brand to mean it that way (where does he mention communism?). This is what's the interesting part in this video FOR ME. He is hardcore critical on the actual political system but at the same time doesn't offer an alternative. Simply offering more transparency, seriously improving the educational system and creating infrastracture (as in healthcare, protection for workers etc) should do the trick. I really don't know too much about the american system but these few "tricks" seem to work quite well in some northern european countries (Norway, Finland...). In contrast pure capitalism with huge influence of multinational companies over governments doesn't seem to work that well (at least when you consider issues that are counter-productive in capitalism, such as environmental protection, healthcare etc...).
Well, let me tell you. America is sustaining 310 million people, while also carrying the weight for tens of millions of illegal immigrants. Taking something that works great in a country like Finland that has a population of 5 million (less than New York City) is completely unrealistic.        
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#22

Johalk

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Join Date: 10/13/2013 | Posts: 36

Seriously bro I like russel but hes a hippie and he got crushed in this debate talking about his communism nonsense lol
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#23

read some tolle bro

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Join Date: 02/02/2013 | Posts: 83

Andre~ wrote:
why does everyone think russell brand 'tears these people apart'?


nobody does it's a click bait title because the posting website wants you to click on it
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#24
Freerider

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#25

Eddie Morra

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Join Date: 05/01/2012 | Posts: 91

Presumably Russell Brand is redistributing his wealth as fast as he earns it to the poor and working class? Maybe not.He is a hugely charismatic guys, if totally economically and politically illiterate. I loved his frame control when Paxman was asking him difficult questions and he was told him not to ask to invent a Utopian socialist solution, most people would have hesitated at their lack of an answer but he was shameless (and to a small degree he was right.)For the Americans who don't know the interviewer Jeremy Paxman, he is the most feared interviewer in the UK because he is usually massively derisory, caustic and sarcastic to politicians and often has them looking uncertain and clueless, the fact that Brand controlled the interview is testament to his frame control.
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#26
MotivationalFilm

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Join Date: 03/04/2013 | Posts: 51

Two things Alain De Botton had to say about Russell Brand's interview: 1) Chomsky tried to be serious so the media turned him cruelly into a joke. Russell Brand turned himself into a joke and became invulnerable.2) The genius of Russell Brand: to know the truth is only going to be allowed through if it seems it might be a 'joke'. He also wrote a 4,500 word manifesto on the revolution he has in mind. 
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#27
irishrogue

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Where exactly does Brand call for Communism?  Does he not clearly state some form of Governance would have to remain?  This is not a form for political debate but surely most have at least some sort of idea about the workings of the main political systems.  Calling for wealth redistribution does not equate to the establishment of Stalinist regimes.  Do the names of Chavez, Morales and Correa mean anything to the vast majority of users here?  The sad truth is probably not.   
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#28
Kindred

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progretarian wrote:
In my eyes Tyler hit the nail on the head! It's spot on.There's a hugely common and well-spread misconception that disparity and inequality are rooted in the current "system". A system purposefully created by the ones in charge to keep on exploiting. It's completely backwards. We don't create our environment, we are the product of our environment. There is for example a lot of evolutionary evidence that emotions such as envy and jealousy arose in humans, because of a scarce environment and difficulty to obtain food. So envy proved to be an effective survival motivator over millions of years to get going by either violently taking a rare banana away from someone or finding the banana plant oneself.  It's simply an adaptation to our environment. Picture for example a planet with humanoid lifeforms on it and that planet is closer to its sun and therefore has more frequent harvests and more abundance of food (plants and animals). Humanoids on such a planet wouldn't have the same evolutionary pressure we had to develop jealousy, because there's enough regular and frequent sources of nutrient rich plants and meat for everyone. So to state: the current system of capitalism/democracy is the root of global pollution and poor, suffering masses, is completely backwards. It's the other way around. Because man is wired like this, the system we have is in existence. And you can observe similar patterns in ant colonies or ape tribes. All species on Earth were designed in Earth's environment and therefore certain rules to survive apply. I am clearly not saying, things can't be better by the way. I agree with Russell. It's extremely important to deal with those issues on move on now that there is technology to overcome obstacles of the past, but wealth redistribution neglects the whole wiring of the human brain and will result in even worse things than before, because the human brain was built in a scarce, dangerous environment for so long, getting more than your neighbour is a powerful incentive that has driven civilization to where it's at today. No form of socialism would have gotten Columbus to America or man on the moon.
 What a load of misguided nonsense. So many "opinions" espoused in this thread smack of the worst kind of social conditioning.
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#29

Rukovo

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Join Date: 07/25/2013 | Posts: 25

Tyler wrote:
I love his confidence to stand up for what he believes.
Sadly it's like watching history repeat itself:  someone grows up poor and seeing all the exploitation, believes the solution is some form of communism. It's an understandable conclusion to come to, but doesn't reflect what actually works.  It's too SIMPLE of a solution:  "Give the money to the poor". He's also coming from a frame that wherever there's abundance there's also a deficiency, which is a remenent of his upbringing and an aspect of his beliefs he needs a "software update" on. But ya he is the man regardless lol.  And I love his passion, and williness to throw it all on the table in a public interview. Tyler
It's like Africa, we keep sending money and clothes and stuff and they really want a better government and a better educational system. Not to mention that sending clothes to them basically eliminates any clothing shops they have over there. Plus farmers have a horrible time in Africa because American farmers get paid subsidies which greatly reduces the global cost of corn, wheat, etc. and causes African farmers to lose a ton of profit, or they barely break even in order to sell anything that they grew.I know a guy that's an actual communist. The easiest way to defeat any arguments he put up is to simply state "name one communist nation that didn't fall." He would bring up China and we would notify him that China is actually more of a capitalist society nowadays.
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#30
Jonathan Browne

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You guys do realize that a sociaslist egalatarian system IS NOT communism, right?

I love how people constantly say "not being an expert, such a man shouldn't voice his opinion". And yet, you have your own counter opinion, do you not?You know, regardless of whether a man can self actualize and OVERCOME the current system, it does not make it okay that millions are NOT overcoming.

Russel Brand overcame his drug addiction, which as he correctly idenfitified, is largely a problem of a totally marganilized underclass. 

Other do not overcome their drug addictions. They also may not have incredible talent at wit, acting etc. which will lead them to millions of dollars.

They may not be ready to start a multimillion dollar pick up company. 

Perhaps they would just like a way to survive.

It IS true that a person can lift themselves out of almost ANY situation.

But that doesn't mean that there isn't a massive problem with the current system.

The banks REALLY did steal literally trillions of dollars through interest fixing schemes like LIBOR. 

The first world governments do largely represent the interests of corporations not the people.

How exactly did russel get crushed in this debate?

The interviewer had no counter proposal other than the idea that an alternative to the current system is trivial and impossible, and that voting is important.

If you truly understand that things such as the LIBOR bank scandal are the tip of the iceberg, you would understand why someone like Russell Brand is enraged. 

First of all, socialism, which is what Brand is proposing, not communism, actually DOES work. It's working for quite a few countries. 

Stocks Of Socialist Countries Have Outperformed The US Since Reagan
Another example is Evo Morales, the president of Bolivia, who has accused the US of harboring terrorists and being guilty of crimes of humanity and has kicked out the dea in his country because he says has has proof they are complicit in drug trafficing in Bolivia. If you've actually read the wikipedia on Iran Contra, this won't seem strange to you at all.

"Bolivian President Evo Morales, defending his decision to expel the US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), said the agency was actually involved in the drug traffic, and "did not respect the police, or even the [Bolivian] armed forces." Announcing that the staff from the US agency has three months to leave the country, he added: "The worst thing is, it did not fight drug trafficking; it encouraged it." He said he had "quite a bit of evidence" backing up his charges. Morales said that after a 1986 operation in Huanchaca National Park, it was determined that the largest cocaine processing plant "was under DEA protection." He also accused the agency of spying on and even killing cocaleros and other opponents of US policies.Presidential Minister Juan Ramon Quintana presented a series of documents and press clips at a news conference, which he described as "objective data" that had influenced Morales' decision to suspend DEA activities. Quintana said Morales was ready to present the evidence to incoming US president Barack Obama "to prove the illegality, abuse and arrogance of the DEA in Bolivia." Throughout the 1990s, the DEA in Bolivia "bribed police officers, violated human rights, covered up murders, destroyed bridges and roads," Quintana said. (AFP, Dec. 11)Bolivia Social Defense Vice Minister Felipe Caceres said the DEA had been operating in Bolivia without an official agreement. He said the DEA acted as it pleased for over 30 years, because no Bolivian administration dared to make the US to sign an agreement. He said a secret DEA office in Cochabamba had been discovered, which the agency had never reported to the Bolivian government."

Anyway, Evo Morales is socialist, and has presidest over the best economic moment in many years in Bolivia with steady growth.

Of course, nearly any western article or western trained banker in bolivia, will say that it is a "train destined to crash" and that it happened despite of Evo Morales. 

But personally, I think it smacks more over adhering to capitalism over facts and reason.

In theory, there is no reason that capitalism and socialism can't work perfectly well together. We already have socialist programs, even the in the united states, it's just that they don't go nearly far enough and let people slip far too deeply into the underclass where poverty becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. 

When the US Housing Department says it would cost 20 FUCKING BILLION DOLLARS, a paltry amount in terms of government, TO TOTALLY END HOMELESSNESS, you know something is going wrong.

Oil subsidies alone cost about 25 billion.

Really?

So your saying we should say to the guy living on the street, with probable mental health problems and/or drug addiction, that he should simply become self actualized, maybe go fuck ten other women or something, and he'll get back on his feet just fine? Then let's all help pay for oil subsidies so we can hop in the SUV and throw some quarters at the homeless guy while yelling "go read think and grow rich!" LOL

As a society we are just fine with letting people rot on the street, because in theory they could take it upon themselves to not be pissing on themselves doing crack in alleys?

And this is in America, and England, where the international banks have headquartered, have allowed far more of the wealth confiscated by literally performing economic hits on other countries; which is distributed in the form of just enough money to keep the masses from going straight to revolution, as well as operate the distrubition system/functioning of the distribution of goods and services that are used by the consumer class who adminstrates the underclass.

Now, there are plenty of entrepeneurs such as tyler who break this social paradigm/scheme. 

But this is not because of fucking "Capitalism", and the barely even token efforts to end the desperate suffering of huge numbers of people, worldwide and in the US. 

This is because of a little document called the constitution that guaranteed a certain level of freedom, and has thinly protected us from the banks. 

That still hasn't stopped 147 companies from having about 70% ownership of all companies in the world. 

This is literally true. 

It was found to be true in 2011 by a team of scientists using a supercomputer to analyze the complex ownership holdings sometimes as many as 20 layers deep, from a database of 37 million companies.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354.500-revealed--the-capitalist-network-that-runs-the-world.html

A truly abundant paradigm would be able to recognize that we should be able to take care of all people who can not or will not take care of themselves, as well as being self reliant.

Before you teach a homeless person to be self reliant, you better give him a home.

You cant just give him an ipod with an rsd video on it, and a sandwhich and call it a day.

Even people who read personal development material for years, are naturally smart, and have homes/jobs/etc still may take many years to develop the kind of self reliance skills needed to become truly self reliant and achieve their true goals/wealth etc.




 
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