THE FORUMS

December 5th, 2016
Notes on ELITE LEVEL GAME
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Trig

Trig

Trusted Member

Join Date: 05/03/2007 | Posts: 1955

First of all, I don’t claim to have an elite
level of game (YET!). I do have some skills and I’ve been pounding the pavement and banging the guns a lot lately. All with the intention of taking my game to stratospheric levels. Below are some of my musings and notes from the past couple of months.

What is Elite Level Cold Approach Game? Being able to go into a high end exclusive nightclub alone and completely sober and consistently pull and bang the highest quality most attractive girls. Typically, these girls are in large hard-to-manage peer groups within the VIP section of the club and have very shitty logistics. Keep this in mind as you read these notes. If you're new and screening the club for the cute DTF girl in an easy two set, it's a little bit different brand of game. Mostly the same but still different.

Building a large high end social circle is definitely more effective for getting the above described girls. However, I feel that there’s a certain merit and nostalgia to building elite level cold approach skills



Approach Anxiety, Introversion, and Approach Apathy

-I’ve been in the game since 2006 and I’veapproached thousands upon thousands of girls.Nonetheless, pro-actively dealing with the above three items is a lot like brushing your teeth. It’s just something that needs to be done every single day.

-Approach Anxiety: I think we all know what approach anxietyis. At this stage in my game, I’m not necessarily scared to approach a particular girl but I do have a more general social anxiety at the beginning of the night.Some nights, I feel great and its not a problem. Other nights I don’tfeel as well and I have FORCE myself to approach those first few sets.

-Introversion:
For my career, I perform a lot of very logically based work in isolation and silence. Right now, I’m not working a whole lot so it’s not a big deal; however, when I do work, this is HUGE. After a long day of numbers and logic I have a hard time relaxing and being carefree, I find it hard to relate to and connect with others and even with close friends that I’ve known for a very long time I can feel cold and distant.I told Jeffy on my bootcamp that I sometimes felt like I high functioning autistic. He laughed

-Approach Apathy: <-This is a real motherfucker here.
For my first three years in the game, I was operating from a scarcity paradigm and I was willing to do anything to get this shit figured out. Going to a nightclub and hitting up girls every night was somewhat taxing but it was also an exciting rush. Back in the day the game was the most challenging and rewarding thing I ever did in my entire life. Nowadays, it’s a bit different. Nightlife does not excite me and a large portion of the girls I meet do not excite me. Lately, I’ve developed some very bad habits of getting bored and lazy in the field. This kills my charisma and destroys any social momentum.

Being actively ignored.
-The super hot girls at the clubs in Vegas oftentimes are going to try their very best to completely ignore anything you do or say. I think a lot of this is cultural because this almost never happens in Dallas or Austin and when I meet tourist girls that are not from large glamorous cities like New York or LA this isn’t an issue. Personally, this irritates me to no end as it’s so fucking childish and retarded. Nonetheless, its part of the game and something that must be handled. Essentially, it’s a frame battle and you just have to hold court long enough that the girl’s[ frame crumbles.

The Hard Step Direct Approach:
-When you approach direct, you cannot half step. You MUST get in the girls face, get physical, and refuse to be ignored. Hence the name, the Hard Step Direct Approach.

-This is what almost all of the community guys I meet are doing these days and is what you will more than likely learn on any RSD bootcamp.

-I, as well as a lot of others, have found that this is highly effective and works. It’s by far the best way to grab attention and generate the initial attraction.

-However! The deeper into the game I get, I am realizing that the hard step direct approach may not be the absolute most solid game which will yield the highest quality results.

-A couple of caveats with the hard step direct
approach:
1) It is oftentimes difficult to maintain such a high level of intensity over a longer period of time and the interaction can easily fizzle when the initial emotional spike wanes.

2) Onecan easily bang several hundred chicks with this approach. Most of the lays will be 20-30 minute pulls with girls that are DTF and have good logistics. There’s nothing in the world wrong with this but if you want to the hottest of the hot girls on a consistent basis, you need to be little bit craftier.

3) For a good deal of the extremely hot girls, the hard step direct approach is far too validating. The girl may well be blown away by your ballsy fearless approach and she will probably be legitimately attracted. However, for a lot of these girls just KNOWING that they have the option of having sex with a cool badass alpha male is enough for them. As attracted as she may seem, she does not have the incentive to ditch her eight best friends, leave the super fun nightclub, and fuck your brains out

Flying Under the Radar.

-Approach the whole group in a nonchalant non-threatening manner, bring a massive amount of value, tease the hot girl, and once she shows signs of interest, you can proceed to isolate and get physical with her. (This is basically the old school Mystery Method)

-I find this to be quite difficult because it demands a very high level of emotional intelligence and charisma to garner attention from a large group of people.

-It’s very easy to end up talking to a bunch of fucking dudes once in a mixed set.

-Getting physical and expressing intent to a girl is much more difficult and awkward when you do not do it on the initial approach.

-All in all, I’ve never had much success with this type of approach. However, it certainly has its merit and is definitely something which I need to keep learning and refining.

Investment:

-The following notes on investment are assuming the hard step direct approach and it also assumes a more challenging anddifficult set In other words, this isn’t the DTF two set.

-Investment is the area where I’m struggling right now.

-The initial approach, generally speaking, takes about five minutes.After that, I get the girl somewhat isolated but still relatively close to her friends. At this point I proceed to build rapport to try to cement the initial attraction. IF this works, it takes about 15 minutes before I can lead her to another part of the club for better isolation. I’m finding that a lot of times this doesn’t work because I simply cannot get
enough investment, rapport, and compliance to lead her to a different part of the club and completely away from the peer group.

-I am calling this the 15 minute investment and compliance window which will precede the comfort building process.<-THIS is where the elite level game is played!!! It’s full of nuance and subtlety.

-In this 15 minute window, it is imperative to gain trust and compliance from the girl, establish the dominant leading frame, deal with any congruence tests, and do all of this while being very genuine and WITHOUT validating her.

-Most of the extremely hot girls feel a lot of social pressure and will not follow your lead if it in any way makes them look or feel slutty. The effective ways around the Anti-Slut Defense are to

1) flip the script and have the girl chase.
2) Get the girl to invest a lot in the interaction where she feels compelled and obligated to maintain the “Us” frame and follow your lead.

-Flipping the script is very tricky because it’s super easy to lose to the dominant, leading, closer frame. Still, it's effective and I need to start doing it more.

-Getting a high degree of investment very rapidly from a hot girl with a lot of options is where I struggle the most.

-What is taught by most pick up coaches and in most pick up circles is to just simply ask questions, genuinely listen, and state your attraction to the girl for “legitimate” reasons. This is standard qualification and while it has its place in the interaction, In my experience, bullshitting about her hobbies, what she does for fun, and her favorite cat is just not compelling enough for her to take the next step. From now on, I’m not going to mess with qualification until later in the interaction when I have her fully isolated.

-An easy mistake to make during this time is demanding too much compliance. Once you demand too much compliance, it validates the girl and kills the vibe.

-I talked to Brad for a few minutes in his webinar about investment and one of the things he mentioned is how being uber unapologetic displays congruence and builds trust and compliance. <-I need to explore this idea in the field.

Comfort Building:

-I’m very good at this stage of the game Once I get a girl 1 on 1, I almost always seal the deal.

-Building comfort with a girl is all about being open and authentic while having a good time and enjoying the moment.

-Hanging out and having fun with a sexy girl BEFORE having sex is one of the most fun things you can do as a man. Enjoy this sliver of time and don’t be in a big rush.

-The more venues the better.

-Occasionally, you need to pump her state and add some fuel to the interaction.IE, maintain the attraction.

-Ending the night with sex should be very easy, natural, and free flowing. It’s not a big deal at all.
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#1
Trig

Trig

Trusted Member

Join Date: 05/03/2007 | Posts: 1955

 Emotional Intelligence

-This is a big key to the game.  If you lack a clear understanding of what other people , especially attractive females, are feeling in the moment, your game will miscalibrated and awkward.  Having and developing a high emotional IQ is like being able to see the matrix and manipulate the future.  Being nervous, stifled, or pre-occupied clouds emotional intelligence and leads to making a lot of tactical mistakes while in set.  This is why it's so important to be present to the moment.  

-The best natural in Las Vegas is a guy with unbelievable emotional intelligence.  He's the most empathic and intuitive person I've ever met.  It's not a coincidence.  

-Most guys develop thier emotional intelligence by going out consistently over a given period of time. The more people with which you interact, the more empathic and intuitive you become.  

-I used to think that females were erratic and wildly unpredictable.  Turns out, they're extremely predictable.  When I'm "ON", I see and know EXACTLY thre right thing to do.  When to push, when to pull, when and how to escelate, when to pump buying temperature, etc....  

-When I'm less than "ON", I don't see things as well.  I make small mistakes that ruin the vibe and eventually lead to losing the girl.  

-I need to pro-actively develop my emotional intelligence to such a point that I can read the matrix even when I'm low energy or not in state.  

-I'm going to do some research on this.  
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#2

THEKingArthur

Junior Member

Join Date: 10/04/2012 | Posts: 10

Shit,

I bookmarked this thread thinking that it will be full of awsome responses. Looks like RSD guys don't know real value treads. This is awsome stuff.

10/10

Will read again.
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#3
Adil

Adil

Respected Member

Join Date: 03/29/2010 | Posts: 305

Well thought post, OP!

"-An easy mistake to make during this time is demanding too much compliance. Once you demand too much compliance, it validates the girl and kills the vibe."
It also looks player-ish when you do that too much, and girls feel incongruence, at least I fail at it when I am not in shape. Just recently I lost a girl who was initially attracted to me by building too much compliance without enough comfort in place. It should be both comfort and compliance from the get go, like in Rogan's recent post.
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#4
Trig

Trig

Trusted Member

Join Date: 05/03/2007 | Posts: 1955

Thanks man
THEKingArthur wrote:
Shit,

I bookmarked this thread thinking that it will be full of awsome responses. Looks like RSD guys don't know real value treads. This is awsome stuff.

10/10

Will read again.
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#5
Trig

Trig

Trusted Member

Join Date: 05/03/2007 | Posts: 1955

I think more than anything, it subtly conveys a dependence on the outcome which repels the girl.  

Another thing I see all the time is guys that keep demanding the same compliance over and over and over again.  Like, they'll hold hands with a girl for a bit and it feels good to them so they repeatedly keep grabbing the girls hand to enforce the compliance and the emotions they had earlier.  Eventually, the girl will detect that small bit of neediness.  
Adil wrote:
Well thought post, OP!

"-An easy mistake to make during this time is demanding too much compliance. Once you demand too much compliance, it validates the girl and kills the vibe."
It also looks player-ish when you do that too much, and girls feel incongruence, at least I fail at it when I am not in shape. Just recently I lost a girl who was initially attracted to me by building too much compliance without enough comfort in place. It should be both comfort and compliance from the get go, like in Rogan's recent post.
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#6
jlaix

jlaix

Instructor | Trusted Member

Join Date: 08/20/2006 | Posts: 8800

Remember you can turn the hard step into a slow roll.
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#7
Trig

Trig

Trusted Member

Join Date: 05/03/2007 | Posts: 1955

Yeah, I've  been incorporating the slow roll and it opens a lot of set that otherwise wouldn't stop.  

"Wait!, wait wait wait, one second one second one second........"  
As soon as she stops, It's back to the standard MO where I'm going to get in front of her make hard eye contact, cut the space. and get physical <-As taught of course.    

*Another note about the slow roll: When you're in very crowded walkway with close proximity to a large swimming pool as is often the case in the Vegas clubs, it's very important not to step into the goddamned pool.  Lest you beast with wet feet for the rest of the night which is fucking miserable.  


jlaix wrote:
Remember you can turn the hard step into a slow roll.
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#8
Trig

Trig

Trusted Member

Join Date: 05/03/2007 | Posts: 1955

This is something that's missing from my cold approach game entirely.  I'm very independent and autonomous, I hate asking for favors, and I typically do not accept favors from anybody.  I'm going to start using the "commitment and consistency" principles.

Thanks for the advice man, 

Madison* wrote:

2. “The Benjamin Franklyn effect”: When someone starts to do favor’s for you, they are more likely to continue doing more favors. If you ask them for several small favor’s they will be more likely to bigger ones later. Its kinda like leading. Small baby steps first.

3. “Attribution”: This is a psychological principle that says if people do you favor’s, they convince them self’s that they are doing it of their own free will. Rather then they were “tricked. They think good things happen to them because of who they are, but bad things happen because of external forces that are not their fault.

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#9

Macavity

Trusted Member

Join Date: 08/25/2009 | Posts: 2511

 Trig, how do you think your game is different now compared to when you said you were killing it back in 2009? Especially since the material RSD is putting out now is way better, more developed and refined. 

Nice post. 
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#10
Trig

Trig

Trusted Member

Join Date: 05/03/2007 | Posts: 1955

In late 2008/ early 2009 I reached a point in my life where I just stopped giving a fuck.  I reached an indifference threshold and really became comfortable with who I was as a man.  Jeffy has been talking a lot lately about "Just Let Go".  When I reached the point where I just let go, it was extremely liberating.  I felt like I was on top of the world.  I was in a good mood every single day, I would go out, have fun, talk to girls effortlessly, and unappologetically pull them from the club and fuck them.  Any tactics or outter game techniques that I used were on autopilot and I was never out of state.  Essentially, I was in an amazing groove from the previous 3 years of self development and hard work.  Other things that helped a lot were that I always had a lot of social proof rolling into the club with the Vegas Crew and also from knowing the Vegas club scene so well.  In about mid 2009, I got an amazing awesome exclusive girlfriend and stopped gaming so hard.  Slowly but surely, I stopped gamig altogether.  By early 2010, I moved back to West Texas for career reasons.  West Texas is where solid game goes to die.  

Nowadays, my game is different because

1.)  After a 3+ year hiatus from the game, all of my skills diminished to almost nothing.   When I got back into the game just a few months ago, I felt like a scared newbie all over again. I was apprehensive about approaching, I ran out of things to say, I was scared to get physical, etc.. I'm still re-learning all of the various sticking points.  Granted, I'm re-learning them at a pretty rapid pace but isometimes t's still frustrating.  
2.)  I have a much more mature perspective on both the game and life now.  The past 3-4 years I have read a ton of books, solidified my world views, and I feel like I'm about 1,000 times more intelligent.  I have much more to offer women now than I did back in the day. 
3.)  While I'm re-learning the basics, I'm simoultaneously re-tooling my game from scratch.  I'm trying to learn a lot of the subtlety and nuance that I didn't bother to learn before.  
4.)  In 2009, having fun was an afterthought for me.  I always had fun and I was always carefree.  Having been away from the game and having been focused on very goal oriented business stuff for three years, I find it much harder to just relax and enjoy the moment.  I used to arrive at the club ready to rock and now it might take a couple of hours to get warm.  
5.)  Overall, my game is not as good as it was; however, in a lot of ways it is better and in a few months my game as a whole will most definitely be better.  I used to always drink when I went out and now I rarely drink.  I'm much more patient now and I am better able to monitor myself, analyze things around me, and make corrections in what I'm doing.  
6.) If I never have sex with another woman as long as I live, I could die happy knowing that I've far exceed anything I could have ever imagined.  My last girlfriend was a legitmate super model, I've pulled stunners from Vegas clubs in less than 20 minutes, and I've had sex with as many as 12 hot girls over a one month period.  I don't have anything to prove to myself or to anybody else.  When I lose a girl that I could've/should've banged, I do not care and it doesn't emotionally effect me at all.  

As far as what RSD teaches, that's tough to say. RSD has definitely evolved and changed a few things but overall, I feel the philosophy is basically the same just more refined and simpler to grasp.  





Macavity wrote:
 Trig, how do you think your game is different now compared to when you said you were killing it back in 2009? Especially since the material RSD is putting out now is way better, more developed and refined. 

Nice post. 
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