THE FORUMS

December 6th, 2016
Ventidue: Learning the Game
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ventidue

ventidue

Senior Member

Join Date: 01/29/2013 | Posts: 253

EDIT August 2014: Had a long break from pickup for about a year. I started out as a complete noob, with no previous experience and managed to change that while in Italy. Now I am back in Cyprus trying to reenter the game. I am writing this journal to track my progress and also as a motivation to continue improving.

February 5th, 2013:  I want to get serious about learning the game. Recording my progress on this journal can help me recall my mistakes and help me focus on my weaknesses. As a result, other members can also help me get better, or possibly for others to learn from my mistakes. I little info about me: I almost have no sexual experience, I have never been passionate about getting good with girls, I just wanted to get them, but never took action. I learned about pickup last summer, when I went out with a buddy of mine and he pushed me into approaching. I then immediately, had a trip to italy for a month, which I forced myself to learn and practice through daygame and nightgame. When I went back home, I was unwilling to go out solo, a lot of my friends were away for studies, so I was not even going out, this lasted for 6 months. Now, I am studying for a masters in Italy again, and I want to take this opportunity to actually get good with these stuff.  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Last night, I went out solo. I really prefer going solo than with classmates that just want to have a drink or just want to get drunk.  Over a period of 1.5 hours, I approached 5 sets, the one failing miserably. In the begin, I got a bit nervous, was hesitating to open anything, and was just standing near the wall playing it "cool" (I know this sucks) I went early, so It was a bit empty. After 20-25 minutes I found the nerve to open a 2 set of chicks near me. I asked them why the club was so empty. They were friendly, we was chatting for around 10-15 min and then I ejected when they told me they was doing to dance. I really wasnt comfortable enough to dance, and in general am not good with dancing because I am a bit too tense in general. Second set, I opened 2 girls over the bar. The one was really cute, so I went a said that to her. In general I though that the interaction went well because I could make her laugh etc. But that is not a strong inticator because I told her that my italian was not good, she spoke perfect english in the begin, and at a point she was talking only in italian. I could make sense of what she was saying but I had a bit of a trouble. Maybe she did this so I would get bored of them and eject. I didnt. I stayed, at a point I was having trouble finding a topic to talk about, she said something to me that I couldnt here (in italian) and she just left with her friend. I then tried to open a 2 set of hot chicks, they was dancing in a sexy way. They had a persona of the hot mean girl stereotype people have in their heads in general. After a bit of a hesitation, I went in from the side (because positioning was not in my favour) and said to the one "you guys know how to party". My tonality was terrible, my body language was terrible, and I tried to initiate a dance with them, but failled miserably. I am sure that I looked like a freaking creep. I cant say that this influenced my psycology for later sets, thankfully. So, next I was looking for other sets to open. At the time I though that I need to stop being too selective and open decent girls not just the hot cute ones. So I opened 2 girls standing by their own. In general, I think this was the best of the night. We had a good convo, I managed to tiss them a bit. I realised that I was more physical with the friend of my target than the target...because I though that it fit the sitation. I tried to number close the target. I asked for the number so we could go for a coffee, because I though she was cool, and at a point she said to me "for coffee or something else?" and I replied "what you mean sex?" I think she laughed at a moment she told me that its cool that I am direct and I tried one more time to get her number, but failed. I am sure that if i was more patient with them, staying with them as long as possible, or even changing targets (because her friend seemed to be interested in me but I didnt find her that beautiful) I could have an actual result. Finally, I decided to leave the club because I was too hesitant to approach, but I wanted to push myself. I saw a 2 set of chicks, so I said this is it, the final one, I need to push myself. After 1-2 minutes I went straight away. Opened with the cute line, direct to one of the two, but they said that they was a couple. Even so, I stayed for practice and got to know them a bit. At a moment, their friend arrived, I said to her "who are you?" and the one of the girls said, she is homosexual too. At this point I was positive that they was lying to me. So I told them so. They denied that they was lying, maybe it was uncool of me for even trying to citisize, but I was curious. So i nicely ejected by saying nice to meet you guys etc. Overall, it was a fun night, I ll definetely try going out (probably solo) 4 times a week. I really need to be more relaxed and be more persistent in my interactions. I tend to eject early with the fear that I will be rejected or that I will bore them. This means I am depended on the outcome, and I shouldnt be. Any critisism is welcomed. ps. I hope this was not a bad read, I was typing a bit fast because I have a busy schedule with school, going to the gym, going out. VentiDue
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#1
ventidue

ventidue

Senior Member

Join Date: 01/29/2013 | Posts: 253

 Solo night again, full sober. I even had 2 free drinks but didnt use them. 

First I went to a cool rock venue to see a friend. On my way, I chatted a girl promoting a club in the street. I was mainly asking her about the club etc. I though she was giving me way more information than a promotional girl would normally give. My exit was terrible. I just cutted the convo saying "ok thank you, bye", I could ask "I ll see you inside?". When I arrived at the venue, I wasnt sure if that was the place, so I asked 2 guys, and chatted them for a bit. I then went inside, hanged with my friend for like 20 min, and then I walked alone to check the rest of the venue. I opened a 2 set of girls, wasnt too attractive but I though I should talk to someone. At first, they seemed unwilling to talk to me, so I didnt pressured them to talk, but I did stay near them. They reopened me asking for my name etc. The one girl at a moment offered me her cigarrete, wich was cannabis she told me, but I declined. I dont drink, I dont do drugs. After talking to them for like 10 min I ejected because, even though they was cool, I got a bit bored. I then went to find my friend, but he was nowhere... I stayed in the venue for 10 min and then left.

I wanted to go to an event, in coincidence the one that I chatted with the promotional girl in the begin. On my way, I was opened by two groups of promotional girls, and I chatted a bit with them. I have to say that I was a bit silly with them. It was like I was acting drunk, but I was fully sober. I then waited outside the club until more people would arrive. I opened two guys asking when people would come, and we continued chatting for a bit. 

I entered the club, and was waiting in the que to place my coat. There was a cute australian girl infront of me. I was a bit hesitant to open her. At a moment she slipped while walking (didnt fell on the ground) and she turned back and I smilled to her. Right away I asked her if she was from switcherland, and we bartered a bit. While on the que, 1 girl and one guy, friends of the australian girl arrived, she introduced me to them and we chatted more. I have to say that they was more interested in me than me in them. 

I lost them while I placed my coat. Right from this moment, my perofrmance changed to the worse. Being solo, beginner, sober, being used to being quiet in my life, I was only thinking that everyone is having fun, but me having trouble to be fun. For the most of the night, I was the guy hanging on near the wall. My first 3 approaches were at least 20 min apart from each, and I couldnt not manage to hook one. I was really terrified and at the same time amazed about this, SO I though I should go for quantity. I opened 2-3 girls in a row with the exact same results. All had the same face saying "get away from me, wtf". Only at a point, In the middle of the night I managed to open a cutie with "who are you". I did open her but I was too passive with her, so she left. 

It was a really interesting night. I left 3 hours before the club closes, because I need to wake up early. I ll have only 5 hours of sleep. I need to be patient, continue going out, but most importantly learn to be cool while being sober. It looks like while I transitioned from a low to a high energy environment, I kept the same style of "game". I guess on high energy environments you need to be way more physical than low energy environments? Help on this please! But again, In the past when I was gaming in Italy again, I had better results by just talking, without being physical at all. I just need to push push push more!

I know that the only advice I need is go out more and more, but anything could motivate me now. SO help me guys!!
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#2
ventidue

ventidue

Senior Member

Join Date: 01/29/2013 | Posts: 253

 I have gone to a techno event a bit out of the city. I never been to one before and I was shocked by the music and the people. In the begin I was wondering why did I even get there. I was a bit tensed for a half hour but then I got into the mode. In general I danced a lot during the night (thing I never do, techno is really easy to dance to, the same bit all the time). The music was really loud, like 50% more than a normal club. 

I tried to open 4-5 sets, half could not listen to me, I tried to take them outside but it was a failure. One girl only I hooked. At first I tried to dance with her, she didnt give me attention, then I told her "you dont like the music?" because she was not dancing, didnt answer, and then I tried again to receive an answer and she came on to me and kind of grabbed my arm ( i dont really remember but she was physical with me). With the loud music and the fact that I have to speak italian, I had  a bit of a difficulty continuing the convo. Later, the same girl with her friend showed proximity to me, because they positioned themselves right infront fo me, with their backs facing me. I noticed proximity from another set I opened that could not hear me.

In general, I dont take all the opportunities infront of me. I could reengage sets, I could open girls that I wanted to but was afraid for a stupid reason.

Overall, I am glad that I am going out. Tommorrow will be the 4th night out, and 5th if I go out on sunday...if I can find an event or something.

Taking action is the main problem I need to solve.
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#3
ventidue

ventidue

Senior Member

Join Date: 01/29/2013 | Posts: 253

Went out for the 4th time in a week. Might be the first time in my life that I went out that many times in a week. 

I decided to go to a rock club. I really expected to find rock looking people in there, but when I got there every one was all fancy and no one looked like a rocker. This shocked me in a way, more like excited me. I gave a round of the club, wasnt so big, and I noticed that I could only see mixed groups and a lot of older people than me. This seems to have scared me as I didnt approach for an hour, I was just standing near the wall. I do this a lot, I know that I need to approach immediately but I have the mindset of approaching only beautiful girls, so I get selective. Its a bad thing.

I first approached a girl, not so beautiful, just to get in the mood. She wasnt even willing to talk. Instead of leaving I tried once more and then just stayed next to her for a min. Right after I walked away and I saw a cute girl walking towards me. I complement her with "you are cute" and she laughed and said "thank you". I just wanted to get in the mood so I moved on. This was a mistake, I should have tried to open a convo with her. 

Then I went and stood near the wall again and two girls came and stood right next to me, I was in the middle of them. So I opened them, I though it was proximity or something. The good looking one didnt seem to be so excited about me opening her, she was in general a bit down, but I got to know her friend too, thinking that I could create jealousy or something. Right after they both walked away.

I didnt feel like having a lot of choice in respect to the women in the club. This made me anxious and couldnt even open a girl that I liked. I wanted to open the cute one again, but her being with her hot friends I was really scared to do so. So for the next 1-2 hours I was walking around or standing near the wall, making me even worse thinking that I cant open a set of my choice. Amost always I rely on women coming close to me, or I open a girl that I am not really interested in.

Now this is the part that I got mad with myself. I got out of the club 10 min before it closed. I found outside the 3 hot girls from before, including the one that I gave the compliment that was cute. I stood next to them, they was talking in italian. I wanted to get a taxi, I heard the word taxi in their convo and I asked them if they were going to the same place as me. They was and they agreed to share the taxi with me. We got in the taxi and I got really shy. I am sure they felt my awkwardness. It was like I was resisting to communicate with them. They asked me where i am from, if I enjoyed the night, I asked them a couple of questions too, but I felt like I could be more high energy with them. Basicaly I acted like the super nice guy that I used to be through out my entire life. We even stopped outside of their house, since my house was in a walking distance. My lack of experience with women is killing me. I had the easiest logistics in the world (was out of their door) and I could see that they had a slight interest in me (or else it was because its in their culture to be nice to people)

I should try to go out tommorrow too. I need a lot of work. I feel like I am making really slow steps. 
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#4
ventidue

ventidue

Senior Member

Join Date: 01/29/2013 | Posts: 253

 I went out for jsut 30 min today. I went to the one bar that I though would be packed today, but was empty. I am not sure if it was due to the horrible weather, being 0 celsius. To be honest before I left people started arriving but I need to wake up early in the morning. I barely get 5-6 hours a day of sleep in the week days, due to the school hours, and I sleep a lot in the weekends. 

The good news is that I opened a set of 6 chicks right away when I entered with a situational opener. "why is the club empty?" They couldnt understand me but I liked the fact that I was in high energy and I was not affected by the fact that they wouldnt allow me to open. I was like "what language do you guys speak?" and the one was replying "no no" and I was tissing her, not giving a shit, "your language is no no?" I got bored of them so I ejected. Only the one of them was actually cute and had a broken arm, I should have tissed her a bit instead of ejecting.

Then I sat on a couch for 5 min. I liked how I opened so fast and that I didnt care of the outcome so I though I should open again just to keep the mood. I opened 2 german chicks (6s) asking if they were russians. The convo with them was really boring, the one told me at a moment "I cant hear you", and in general they was not in the mood of meeting new people. I opened them normally, not high or low energy, I am not sure if this has to do with the convo being boring. I did try though to play verbal game on them and see if they can open up themselves to me. I think I ejected too fast.

After these two, I sat near the wall and I couldnt stop thinking how empty the club was and that I should leave. Right after, people were arriving, including girls I wanted to open, but I was feeling low energy and unable to do so.

Lessons:
- I give up too easily. I do this a lot
- I cant control my mood/energy. Need to find a way to becoming excited with myself on command (help?)
- More night outs, a lot more!!!!

I should find another way to game, beside night game. I ll try manage my time for daygame too!
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#5
ventidue

ventidue

Senior Member

Join Date: 01/29/2013 | Posts: 253

This was kind of a shitty night. Before going to the club, I slept for 1.5 hours. I found some guys on the street, because I missed the final bus, and went to the club with them.

Not only I was sleepy and not in the mood for talking at all, but also, the club was empty... and I paid 15 euros to get in. After an hour I opened the girl for the coats storage. We had a short convo, but that was it.

Then I saw a cute girl on her own ordering a drink, after she took the drink I opened her, without any success. After that I was just wondering around and then left the venue.

Until now, I dont thing I have seen a sexy girl in a night. All of them are dressed casually and there are not lots of them, lol. I may be choosing the wrong venues, or the night life here may just suck in the winter. I hear a lot that during the summer its way better here because of pool parties etc.

Lessons:
- dont sleep before going out, or if I do, find a way to get in state first (something I cant seem to be able to achieve, especially since I dont drink at all)
- choose better events and ask people for each one.

Overall, shitty event, but mostly shitty game on my part. I could open a few more chicks but I hesitated.

VentiDue.
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#6
ventidue

ventidue

Senior Member

Join Date: 01/29/2013 | Posts: 253

Tonight was awesome! Solo, sober, was not out of set for more than 5 min, sarged a huge club for 1.5-2 hours.

I felt like I was at the level left from 6 months ago. I talked to, maybe, at least 10 sets through out the night. I was able to plow a lot through the bulshit of many chicks, and my psychology was perfect, I didnt give a fuck about what people though of me. The venue DID help a lot. This was the best venue I have been to, in Italy, until now. It had more than a 1000 people inside and the music was cool too, easy to dance to (techno). 

I first had to get the bus from the city to get to the club, which was out of the city. The buses were provided by the club. While waiting for the bus, I opened 2 chicks asking if that was the pickup location and 5 min later I opened 2 guys. Guys are always cool to talk to. I usually open them, ask them something, I shut up, and 1 min after they start asking questions! Can help a lot when you are not in a talkative state.

In the bus, everyone was shouting in italian, basicaly they were crazy. These are stuff I cant do, and I know that RSD boot camps make you do such stuff to get in state! Even though everyone was screaming I was like "wtf" and felt a bit uncomfortable.

The most memorable sets:

My first set, was a blond cutie, I think she was drugged really bad, on her own will. She was really open and really cool! I though she was on drugs because she almost couldnt open her eyes and was REALLY relaxed. In anyway, it was sure helpful that the first set didnt give me the "fuck off" look.

Then I met 2 girls from london. They were on holidays. I talked with the one for a while. Unfortunately, I went for the worst looking one, but still good looking enough. We had a good convo and was receptive. I ejected after 10-15 minutes because I felt like I was gonna bore them if I stayed (wanted to leave at a high energy point). I think her friend was a bit jealous that she was not getting the attention. I didnt try to get their number because my intent was not sexual at all and I though that I was gonna see them later in the night. That was stupid of me, in a club with a thousand people. I should have tried to close her by being direct that I wanted to fuck her.

I opened an italian girl, was not really receptive but then I took notice of her friend and opened her instead right after. The sitation here was really funny for me. Firstly, because I opened my final target's friend first, one guy, their friend, tried to play "she is my girlfriend" on the wrong girl, lol. I was like " no problem, I like this one" in bad italian. My target was really cute and was really hard to open, but fun. It took me 10 min to make her introduce herself. In the begin she would not even talk to me, she would only say "no". Its funny how her friend left her alone with me, even though she was not willing to talk to me. We then fluff talked for two min but she then just left. In part, I think it was because my italian sucks, and she didnt speak english.

My last memorable set, and worthy of talking about, was one that I failed to open, but I was plowing for maybe 20-30 minutes. Ofcourse, I was not trying to get their attention every sec, but every 1 or 2 min. I was cool, during the whole time, and was actually having fun. I left when I asked "why dont you talk?" and she told me something in italian that I could not understand, but in a very stressful way. I though I shouldnt lose more time on her and I wouldnt want to cause any trouble later with her friends or anything. I was fully solo after all.

Lessons:
- I can be really good at plowing, as long as I have the "have fun mentality".
- Only once during the night I felt on my face the stress from a rejection, that causes you to look bad to other people around you.
- I really need to learn physical game. I feel like that my opens from the whole night were going nowhere, physicality could help me show the right intent. I keep touching girls on their waiste with just one hand. I am not sure how this looks, and what kind of intent this shows.

I think I covered a lot from tonight. This was my 4th night out this week, including tuesday in which I went out, the city was dead, so I went back home right away. Also, I was a bit frustrated from my whole performance until now, but the night tonight helped in changing my mood in a more positive way. I know that I shouldnt rely on validation but It does feel damn good!

VentiDue
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#7
ventidue

ventidue

Senior Member

Join Date: 01/29/2013 | Posts: 253

This night was really something! Even though I went out for just an hour, I experienced a crazy change in my state throughout the night. I was not even going to go out until I read the report by jakesfanboy http://www.rsdnation.com/node/255680/forum

I read the report and immediately changed my shirt and head for the club. Solo, sober again.

I entered the club, went to the cloak room, and on the line I opened a 2 set, an american and a holland girl. Both good looking. We had a bit of a convo, until I broke it to put my coat away. Then I went on the dancefloor. This was the moment where really bad emotions kicked in. The club was empty, I was looking for a spot to stand, I was feeling alone. Terrible! 

I felt lost for a while, untill more people entered the club. I started dancing a bit, which got me into the mood, and opened a 3 set of english chicks. I actually just spoke only with the fatty in the set lol. And it was just a question "where are you guys from". 

Then I changed my position, and stood against the whole. I was really nervous, so I though I should open just anything. I see next to me 2 german girls, I first didnt want to open them because they was not attractive, but after 5 min I did. Now the funny thing is that I opened them the week before In another bar. They wouldnt talk to me but I really had a laugh. I was like throwing questions at them, the one was responding with single words at a moment. I am sure they did remember me and think that I am a loner or some shit. It didnt really affect me..much. 

3 min later, I saw a really cute girl, 2 set. After 4 min of hesitation, I opened her with the claw on the shoulder. I said hi, she turned, and I did the claw and said "who are you". I didnt really manage to hook her. They moved one meter from me, but I reopened them. Didnt manage to hook, so they left. 

Now here is the fun part. 2 girls was dancing infront of me, the one was dancing in a really sexy way. She was a 6 but had nice curves. I tried to open them at a moment when she came really close to me, didnt manage to open. After a min, more of her friends came and I did the claw on her, while I was facing her back (i think). She didnt resist and came on to me. We danced, fluff talked, spinned her 4 times, I told her she was cute. But I had trouble dancing with her. We was both really physical with each other but I felt that we could get a lot closer (I cant really explain it). At a moment, she told me she had to get back to her friend, I tried to n-close, told me she didnt remember her phone, I told her we can meet later, she told me I ll see you later. I bring her close to me, I tell her close your eyes, she laughs, gives me a kiss on the chick and left.

Now here is when I got shocked and excited. 5 min later, An american hottie told me "ciao", I look back, there was nobady there, lol. She opened me. I was really shocked and I lost my words (mind). I couldnt have a decent convo with her, but I stayed cool. She was having trouble to hear me, and I was having trouble hearing her. She was telling me that she was looking for her friend, I was telling her you can stay with me. I really couldnt handle the situation. The funny thing was that the german chicks were next to us, the one of them had the look on her phase "wtf?". Lol. But I could tell that this hottie wanted me to meet her. In a few words, I was really uncalibrated!

Before the club, I told myself that I would stay only for an hour, because I have lectures tomorrow, all day long, so I left. While, leaving the american hottie waved goodbye to me. I just noded to her with my head and left.

The night was awesome and it was kind of stupid of me that I left so early.. I could really step up a lot more I think. In any way, I like that I see progress in my psychology, step by step.

Lessons:
- I felt like my looks contributed tonight.
- I beleive that I internalised plowing and I am managing to slowly reopen failed sets.
- Finally, I take action! More more more!

VentiDue.
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#8
ventidue

ventidue

Senior Member

Join Date: 01/29/2013 | Posts: 253

For the last half an hour I was thinking whether I should go out or not. It looks like I am not. I cant seem to reach out and go for the 4 times a week night outs.

The think is that I have a pretty intensive schedule. Almost everyday, I have 8 hours per day of school and I go to the gym 4 times a week. The problem is that the main events of the week, that I can actually find places packed with people are on wedsday to saturday. Four nights in a row. I have this fear that if I over push my self and go out 4 times a week, on those specific days, I will not get enough sleep and fail on the other 2 important aspects of my life...education and health. No sleep means harder to gain weight and less focus in class, both pretty much important for me.

I really want to go out  but I am really hesitant at the same time, for the reasons mentioned. I guess I ll have to just try and see what happens...
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#9
ventidue

ventidue

Senior Member

Join Date: 01/29/2013 | Posts: 253

This night was a disaster, I really wasted a lot of time.

I went to this new venue for the first time. I was feeling really awkward in the begin. I tried to open some guys, but didnt speak english. After a while of me wondering in the club, I tried to open a 2 set of chicks, nothing special, they couldnt hear me. 

In general, I was too much in my head and I was finding a million excuses not to approach. I though that there were too many youngsters in the club, I tried to dance but I was feeling awkward seeing everyone dancing in groups. 

I left early. Outside of the club I saw a friend. While we was chatting a girl friend of his just came onto me and said hi. My friend was like "do you know him?" and she was like "no". We chatted. She was a bit drunk but she was mentioning stuff related to sex. I was too much in my head to have a decent convo, I was too much unresponsive and quiet. In general, in such situations I am afraid to make a move thinking that I may insult my friend by hitting on his friend or that her boyfriend may be one of my friends' friends. Too much overanlysing things..

Lessons:
- I need to think less when going out
- I almost wasnt trying at all today.

I can see that the last week I have been really hesitant to go out, after going to that huge club which I saw good results. Looks like I am intimidated my small venues or empty ones... 

VendiDue
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#10
ventidue

ventidue

Senior Member

Join Date: 01/29/2013 | Posts: 253

Not a bad night. This time I met with some italian friends. 

The one guy, in the begin of the night right, he was pushing me to talk to girls because he was trying to prove to me that Italians have a clsoed culture and that when men talk to women, women think that men have sex in mind so they are not willing to talk to them. Unnecessary to say that he was mentioning this topic all night.

I was hesitant in the begin, but I did go and talk to some girls he pointed, that he already knew. The only thing that they was doing all night was to drink, but I stayed sober the whole night. I really have no problem with that, I am not feeling the social pressure to drink. 

In general, I opened around 4 sets, some of them real beautiful, and I cant say that I had problems opening any of them. The problem was on my part. I wasnt persistent enough and I didnt manage to reopen most of them. 

Only one set is worth talking about, a 4 set that all women were attractive and older than me. I opened them, but I kept the convo only with the one I liked, and she was really open talking to me. She kept saying to me, "you are too young for me" and I was like "too young for what?", and she was laughing. She even suggested to go to a place after the current venue, I told her "want me to come with you?" (or something similar, I dont remmber) and she was like "we have no space in the car but its near here". Then I told her i na commanding way "give me your phone number" (I didnt say why) and she said "I am not that easy" (laughing). 

When the venue closed I tried to reopen her while she was walking, she wouldnt stop. I asked her "what now?" and she said "we are going to the X venue". I didnt run behind her though. At that moment I though that she might be a validation bitch. She seemed to be Too Easy To Be True. My friends was going to leave at that moment, and the next venue had a high price at the door, and it was freezing so I went home. I kind of regret this now but it was a cool night.

Lessons:
- I was not persistent enough in my interactions
- I could reopen 2 really cute chicks that walked infront of me and I didnt.
- I think I have a really good tonality when I open girls
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