THE FORUMS

May 23rd, 2017
Ratio of success/failure in cold approaches
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#41
jlaix

jlaix

Instructor | Trusted Member

Join Date: 08/20/2006 | Posts: 8758

 OP is an unmitigated and deserves to fail at life. Obvious troll... gave him the relevant videos on the topic, hell was even replied to rationally by tyler himself, but insists that his fucktarded perspective is the correct one in spite of all evidence to the contrary. Full faggot.

OR great troll.... 8/10
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#42
GianniR

GianniR

Senior Member

Join Date: 06/10/2012 | Posts: 242

 I love how friendly jeff is to his potential clients xD

and you also need to get into your head that their is a BIG difference between the set not going anywhere (mostly because you didn't like her) and getting rejected. From al the 'rejections' you think you get maybe 5-10% are actual rejections, the rest just didn't go anywhere. this does dipend on your style of game, I can imagne that guys like jeffy get rejected more (and that's because he doesn't care about getting rejected). but you, being a little bitch, wont get rejected that much, it just won't go anywhere.
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#43

toil1823

Junior Member

Join Date: 07/16/2012 | Posts: 16

Quote:
Hey guys, I want UNWAVERING CONFIDENCE to land that 1 girl to make my wife, how can I get UNWAVERING CONFIDENCE without sacking up, doing a shit ton of approaches, getting rejected and stuff bros?


I never said I didn't want to approach. Just asking questions and increasing my knowledge before I do... like any prudent person. Cut the condescending and immature attitude.

Quote:
The problem with your mindset is that, while you are finding one night stands repulsive, if she feels like fucking, she will do so, with or without you. She will be the same girl you love or are infatuated with. Its one of the things guys getting into pick up are faced with the lies we were brought up, taught, told growing up, and then, we see the world for what it is. I do not tell yout his to make you afraid but, to help you prevent the lows and the experiencing the darkside of it.


@powerlevel. Thanks for one of the only mature responses. I have been heartbroken before and I know what many women are like. My filtering process is good. I would never seriously date a girl who has cheated or had a ONS or fucked a rediculously high number of guys. Those are all indicators that the relationship wouldn't last. And yes, a will fuck with or without me... I am aware of that and I don't want it to be with me. Easy isn't game. Nor is it enjoyable... just feels cheap to me.

Also; what is this book by Paul Mekenna that you mention? I have no idea who he is, obviously, as I am a newbie. Anything that would help be disassociate rejection with self esteem is probably what I need right now so that I can approach and not care about the consequences.


@sexyasian - you say that when you are inexperienced you get blown out more? Is that just due to lower confidence and no persistence? I guess you will always be inherently limited by your looks (inb4someone tries to tell me looks don't matter), but if even the instructors get rejected a lot it seems that pua is predicated on mastering that 'i dont give a fuck attitude' rather than actually being able to get 'any girl' (was the message that seemed to be conveyed when I read "the game"). Obviously getting any girl is completely unrealistic given some girls are not the type to cheat on their BFs/you are not their type etc. etc. (but in the game neil seemed to treat all this as a nonissue and was repeatedly getting women who were in relationships. He seemed to advance the notion that the better your game = higher chance of picking up. Hence why I asked the initial Q of what a newbies expecations were vis-a-vis that of a pro pua. I asked it as a way to quantify progress... but instead I get trolls hating on me saying that having 'expecations' is bad and self defeating when I didn't mean it from a mindset point of view....Though I am aware that you guys probably do not look too favourably on neil in this forum given how he says in his book that tyler and papa etc barely got laid... so maybe neil is wrong? Or i got it wrong because I read that book awhile ago.

Quote:
OP is an unmitigated and deserves to fail at life. Obvious troll... gave him the relevant videos on the topic, hell was even replied to rationally by tyler himself, but insists that his fucktarded perspective is the correct one in spite of all evidence to the contrary. Full faggot.

OR great troll.... 8/10


Despite having over 6,000 posts you still manage to act with the maturity of a 12 yr old. Congratulations. I never insisted that my perspective was correct. After Tylers post the only other post by me merely elucidates my own personal background. Nowhere do I disagree with what he said or EVEN ADDRESS IT. If you have nothing constructive to add don't post on my thread. I am just a guy who is new to this asking a few questions.


Few more questions to anyone who wants to answer without being immature:

- From my limited experience the 'relationship dynamic' so to speak is the following: Guy must put in the work to get the girl into bed and at that point he should back off and the girl will then put in the majority of the 'effort'. How do you reconcile this with the idea that you shouldn't send longer txts than a girl/ not seem to be putting too much effort into the convo (i.e lean back and listen). Whenever I adopt that approach from the get go the girl is less interested. But when I actually try 'game' them they are much more receptive even though I have to do more of the work. Any thoughts/input?

And with regard to approaching: I am going to try read a few things so that I can disassociate my ego with approach rejection and then approach until I have no AA and have a lot of confidence. How do you guys deal with blushing? I prefer approaching at night because people cannot see you blush and thus see you are intimiated. Is it something that leaves as confidence increases? or a genetic trait you cannot get around?

Thanks
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#44
CharlieT

CharlieT

Senior Member

Join Date: 02/07/2012 | Posts: 178

 WIthout being as aggressve as some of the others (*cough* Jeffy *ahem*) I can see why a lot of guys here are getting frustrated on you. It's not just that you asked an asinine question, which is to be expected from someone very new, it's that when you're given fairly thoughtful answers instead of being appreciative , taking more action and getting more perspective BEFORE asking more questions you just continue to nit pick everything as if at some point you'll get enough advice to make the road ahead an easy walk. Aint gonna happen.

How would any response to your blushing question help you? What difference will it make if someone says, "Yeah bro, blushng is genetic, you just gotta accept it" or "Na dude, apprach x amount of times y number of days a week and you wont blush after such and so number of months"

Honestly, think about it...what effect would that have? How would that change your next step? If your answr is anything other than "It wouldn't" you've got a looooong way to go bro.
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#45
bigjew629

bigjew629

Trusted Member

Join Date: 04/08/2012 | Posts: 1582

Guy must put in the work to get the girl into bed and at that point he should back off and the girl will then put in the majority of the 'effort'. How do you reconcile this with the idea that you shouldn't send longer txts than a girl/ not seem to be putting too much effort into the convo (i.e lean back and listen). Whenever I adopt that approach from the get go the girl is less interested. But when I actually try 'game' them they are much more receptive even though I have to do more of the work. Any thoughts/input?

This is a question about investment. Investment isn't solid. What do I mean by that? I mean that a chick can tell that you are heavily invested and "banking" on her responses no matter what you do. Truth is, this is the default for you when you are new or like me, just getting back into it. Thats right, you need to be lucky enough to get a chick (who will undoubtably friend you btw) who feels sorry for you enough to see through all your insecurities and realize that you are just some lame-o who is trying to improve his social skills. And when it comes to getting the lay? That is also a function of luck, especially if you haven't had sex yet and you don't have a strong social circle that can just feed you chicks. Why do you feel better when you are doing more of the work? Its cuz when you actually are doing more of the work you feel more productive and then you feel like you are in control. Cuz when you are productive you just want to do the absolute best and reap the rewards and the expectations are placed on yourself not her. When you are NOT in control, and especially when you believe that you can just WAIT for success and you just expect good things to happen with minimal effort (which is tbh what I suffered from tonight,) It will not end well for you in the slightest. 

And with regard to approaching: I am going to try read a few things so that I can disassociate my ego with approach rejection and then approach until I have no AA and have a lot of confidence. How do you guys deal with blushing? I prefer approaching at night because people cannot see you blush and thus see you are intimiated. Is it something that leaves as confidence increases? or a genetic trait you cannot get around?
I had to deal with this 7 years ago when I first decided that I was done relying on my social circle to get me chicks and actually go approach chicks. I wasn't able to look them in the eye, I was stuttering all over the place, blushed and sweated like a madman where ppl would actually ask if I needed to see a doctor cuz I was so nervous. Then I would leave and I would burst into tears from nerves in my car for like 10 minutes. Know what would happen? Nothing. I was still standing at the end of the day. So I repeated this for a good 2-3 years until I stopped being so nervous. You just have to have faith that things will get better and view EVERYONE else around you as irrelevant (unless they have the same amount as social anxiety as you or worse).

Improvement will NOT (and should not) happen overnight. I'm getting the vibe that you want it to happen overnight tho. And if you think I'm not dealing with this stuff anymore you are wrong, cuz I am 30 and only had sex with two chicks, one of which was a that I dropped money on. So now in the same way I had to deal with social anxiety by fighting it for two years I now have to deal with the crippling anxiety with with sex for an even longer time. Cuz it makes me even more nervous than socializing did.


 
 
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#46

toil1823

Junior Member

Join Date: 07/16/2012 | Posts: 16

CharlieT wrote:
 WIthout being as aggressve as some of the others (*cough* Jeffy *ahem*) I can see why a lot of guys here are getting frustrated on you. It's not just that you asked an asinine question, which is to be expected from someone very new, it's that when you're given fairly thoughtful answers instead of being appreciative , taking more action and getting more perspective BEFORE asking more questions you just continue to nit pick everything as if at some point you'll get enough advice to make the road ahead an easy walk. Aint gonna happen.

How would any response to your blushing question help you? What difference will it make if someone says, "Yeah bro, blushng is genetic, you just gotta accept it" or "Na dude, apprach x amount of times y number of days a week and you wont blush after such and so number of months"

Honestly, think about it...what effect would that have? How would that change your next step? If your answr is anything other than "It wouldn't" you've got a looooong way to go bro.
 point noted. Although in my defence I did watch the videos that I was linked to and haven't been inclined by by overly nice given some people straight out insulted me before I even did anything (think ive only posted like 4 times in this thread). With regard to the blushing, I should have made my question more directed - I have read before about beta blockers (basically pills you take that remove any physical manifestations of anxiety) i.e. sweating, shaking (i dont shake or anything) and I was wondering if they would stop blushing too. Or anything similar people take that mitigate any outward signs that you are nervous/intimidated.

And no I am still going to start to approach regardless but nevertheless I still want to work on presenting my best self (i.e extreme example but I don't get why people who are real out of shape spend hours gaming girls without fixing their appearances too).
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#47

toil1823

Junior Member

Join Date: 07/16/2012 | Posts: 16

bigjew629 wrote:
Guy must put in the work to get the girl into bed and at that point he should back off and the girl will then put in the majority of the 'effort'. How do you reconcile this with the idea that you shouldn't send longer txts than a girl/ not seem to be putting too much effort into the convo (i.e lean back and listen). Whenever I adopt that approach from the get go the girl is less interested. But when I actually try 'game' them they are much more receptive even though I have to do more of the work. Any thoughts/input?

This is a question about investment. Investment isn't solid. What do I mean by that? I mean that a chick can tell that you are heavily invested and "banking" on her responses no matter what you do. Truth is, this is the default for you when you are new or like me, just getting back into it. Thats right, you need to be lucky enough to get a chick (who will undoubtably friend you btw) who feels sorry for you enough to see through all your insecurities and realize that you are just some lame-o who is trying to improve his social skills. And when it comes to getting the lay? That is also a function of luck, especially if you haven't had sex yet and you don't have a strong social circle that can just feed you chicks. Why do you feel better when you are doing more of the work? Its cuz when you actually are doing more of the work you feel more productive and then you feel like you are in control. Cuz when you are productive you just want to do the absolute best and reap the rewards and the expectations are placed on yourself not her. When you are NOT in control, and especially when you believe that you can just WAIT for success and you just expect good things to happen with minimal effort (which is tbh what I suffered from tonight,) It will not end well for you in the slightest. 

And with regard to approaching: I am going to try read a few things so that I can disassociate my ego with approach rejection and then approach until I have no AA and have a lot of confidence. How do you guys deal with blushing? I prefer approaching at night because people cannot see you blush and thus see you are intimiated. Is it something that leaves as confidence increases? or a genetic trait you cannot get around?
I had to deal with this 7 years ago when I first decided that I was done relying on my social circle to get me chicks and actually go approach chicks. I wasn't able to look them in the eye, I was stuttering all over the place, blushed and sweated like a madman where ppl would actually ask if I needed to see a doctor cuz I was so nervous. Then I would leave and I would burst into tears from nerves in my car for like 10 minutes. Know what would happen? Nothing. I was still standing at the end of the day. So I repeated this for a good 2-3 years until I stopped being so nervous. You just have to have faith that things will get better and view EVERYONE else around you as irrelevant (unless they have the same amount as social anxiety as you or worse).

Improvement will NOT (and should not) happen overnight. I'm getting the vibe that you want it to happen overnight tho. And if you think I'm not dealing with this stuff anymore you are wrong, cuz I am 30 and only had sex with two chicks, one of which was a that I dropped money on. So now in the same way I had to deal with social anxiety by fighting it for two years I now have to deal with the crippling anxiety with with sex for an even longer time. Cuz it makes me even more nervous than socializing did.



 
 
Bolded the bits that I want to respond to so that it makes it easier.

With regard to the first one; I think that is a really self defeating mindset to have. I don't think, most of the time, girls think that. And I am hoping there is a way to do it without them thinking you are waiting on their response. If you are socially calibrated enough then I think giving off a vibe of 'amused detachment' and thus lack of outcome dependency would be conducive... how exactly to achieve it I am not sure. Though at any rate I am trying to avoid 'artificial game' as much as I can (i.e memorising a lot of lines and just using canned material for hours on end) - seems to instill outcome dependency from the very start - i.e you are putting your best self forward and investing so much in the interaction that if they were to reject you its like they are rejecting your 'very core' so to speak...

with regard to #2; wow man that is fucking crazy brutal. Did you anticipate that it would be that bad beforehand? I often have negative thoughts and think things will go really badly and negative thoughts can get me down when in reality its always better than that. Also were you only approaching really hot girls? how were you with women prior to this point? And how did the women react? Any brutally mean ones?

With regard to #3; I kind of do want to progress fast. In some ways I am not that bad but in other ways I do think I am bad. It really depends how I view it. Been on a few dates over last few months after my LTR ended and I haven't failed to kiss them all on the first date so i cannot be completely bad (usually within 30 mins or so + kept trying to escalate past there too)... one eevn said i was one of the most confident guys she had dated (defs not true but she wasnt that great (5/10)so i didnt feel threatened by her. sex on 2nd date too). Better looking they are/older they are = worse I get I think. So yeah, I do want to progress fast but I don't know if I am completely hopeless or not... when I visualise fucking up in my head I visuaalise it a lot and myself in situations similar to what you mentioned. Yet in person it never happens. I also have a fear that I will get nauseus and have to vomit so i prefer dates outside where you can just vomit at will... but then when i go on the actual date i have never been nervous (no one above a 7/10 yet maybe that is why). LIke my negative mindset is extremely bad. im very negative. yet things are never even bad? I dnno what I am trying to say exactly.
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#48

JohnnyCanada

Respected Member

Join Date: 02/20/2011 | Posts: 728

What about Mystery's 5 for 5? If you can't go 5 for 5 in a night, you suck at the game and haven't mastered it.
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#49

toil1823

Junior Member

Join Date: 07/16/2012 | Posts: 16

what is 5 for 5?
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#50
Tyler

Tyler

Instructor | Trusted Member

Join Date: 08/20/2006 | Posts: 8817

LOL well basically what it is, is that pretty much ALL PUA's have the delusion that they can get every girl.

It's natural to feel this way, cause when you're an average looking dude pimping GODDESS STUNNERS you gotta roll up in there with a lil swag and anticipate it's ON.

But sometimes a PUA fails to "snap out" of that delusional confidence haze and make claims that are a lil unrealistic, or maybe more like MASSIVELY exaggerated.

One really good PUA who was THE SHIT once claimed he could approach five women and fuck all of them, which of course is not based in reality at all and he's never done it, but it's a reflection of his massive confidence in his own abilities which makes sense.

Where it causes a few headaches is when guys like yourself get a hard-on to do the same, when you never EVER EVER EVER will.  Ever. :)

Tyler

PS:  Ever. 
toil1823 wrote:
what is 5 for 5?
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