THE FORUMS

July 27th, 2017
Ratio of success/failure in cold approaches
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#31
OutofBacon!

OutofBacon!

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Join Date: 12/02/2010 | Posts: 782

mikevick07 wrote:
you count approaches? success to me is just having a good time....when you think like that, rejections are actually funny or you simply don't even notice "failures"
I don't even see rejections anymore. There's just lack of chemistry, bad timing (which is usually a bad way the dude approaches), or maybe just not in a total social mode yet. Ultimately, you should be screening her, not her screening you and "rejecting" you. That's bs. Lately I just think, "Oh, I guess she doesn't want to fuck a champ." But my mind and way I look at things has changed a lot.
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#32
OutofBacon!

OutofBacon!

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Join Date: 12/02/2010 | Posts: 782

Here's where approaching a lot will help newbie and more intermediate dudes. Generally they have problems with their emotional state in the club, breaking through their plateaus and limiting beliefs comes from more action. You can get a good emotional state from relaxing, but you can't get a ton of REFERENCE EXPERIENCES from relaxing and not taking action. Relaxing isn't always the perfect word, I'd say the key with every coach's game is have fun. Whatever your version is fun is. Fun can come from relaxing, it can come from any number of ways. Have fun, and be horny. Be normal. That's what everyone has.

Attraction is fairly easy, and can be done being normal conversation with good eye contact, tonality, cutting the space, etc, or more so being congruent to the environment you're in (such as if it is a high energy environment or time of night 1AM-2AM within the hour of close when you better be taking bolder moves as that's more normal or AKA congruent to the environment in the majority of venues, but not all). Also newer guys generally last shorter talking to the girls as they don't know the right ones to approach, or they do something fucking weird (I get nervous still too, it happens, we're human).

There's a major problem with black and white thinking here. That's problem a major problem in the majority of people. One reason I've gone from sucking shit to good quickly and I think anyone who gets good at this is they can see the subtlesites. Life is not black and white. Politics. Philosophy. Game. Business. Whatever. Relationships. Shades of grey...Maybe not fifty ;)

There was some old David D thing where he talked about people with a lot of success can generally accept what at face value seems like contradictory beliefs. They can hold these opposing viewpoints, and take the right course of action.
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#33
OutofBacon!

OutofBacon!

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power_level_over9000 wrote:

OutofBacon! wrote:
 
Dude, girls will give out their number to anyone. Anyone. Only twice ever has a girl not given me her #. A number really means shit. No offense.


I always get them early lately, 1) Get more reference experiences whether or not she's cute, game is game. 2) Logistics, friends get pulled away, whatever.

But it's not attention whore. It could be pity number, it could be if I do this the guy will leave me alone, you could be getting the # and just leaving (I used to do that until earlier in the year, so stupid) rather than trying to make a connection with her, get to know her, persist to fuck so she knows your the real thing, or you could have horrible TXT game. I used to have a problem with that as well, no longer shitty, I just don't subcommunicate scarcity. It's just normal.
Thanks for the response. If she gives out the number, has no interest, doesn't this point to her as a attention whore? More validation instead of just being honestly not interested. I haven't even called all the numbers. I have been busy with shit like work and trying to put together this business plan, and school. I think the relationship I was in was such a bad idea. I recall this stuff being a lot easier. Your point on text game is interesting. I always feel awkward the first time I text or call. Not sure why this is? I guess its rust. The stat of pulls compared to numbers is awful man. How is your ratio here? I know Julien and Tyler have that video about not focusing on batting average. Its just difficult not to logically size it up that way. I am a numbers guy so, I suppose its a bit of a shift in needing to see different points of view. I will give persisting to fuck a try. Sounds like a stepping hard instead of half stepping type situation.
No way dude, I mean yes all girl's in a way ARE attention whores, but also no, they aren't. I know again...This comes back to having and holding these two opposing beliefs firmly in your head. Girls not TXTing you back is not them giving you their # so they are attention whores, they crave attention, but also the reason they're not getting back to you is not because of that.

You're looking at it in a negative way, and I understand you're thinking as I still have moments like that, (fuck these hoes! don't they just want my dick?! ;)  If you were fucking them, you wouldn't be calling them attention whores.

Lately, girls follow up with me. Whether I get the number from a 6 or an 8. That's where you want to be. But not all girls. I don't count ratios. I just see everything as a learning experience. This also helps get rid of emotional investment, which will also help your game hugely. Even ridding oneself of micro investing I came up with last night when out. So I see everything as a learning experience, and yet I'm also trying to make a connection with a girl. So it's sort of the positive of both, it's all a learning experience, but I like making out, and fucking, and getting to know people.

So again opposing, but positive beliefs. Beliefs that are beneficial.
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#34
OutofBacon!

OutofBacon!

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Quote:
OutofBacon wrote:
I don't even see rejections anymore. There's just lack of chemistry, bad timing (which is usually a bad way the dude approaches), or maybe just not in a total social mode yet. Ultimately, you should be screening her, not her screening you and "rejecting" you. That's bs. Lately I just think, "Oh, I guess she doesn't want to fuck a champ." But my mind and way I look at things has changed a lot.


Quote:

power_level_over9000 Wrote: Thanks man. I needed to hear this. After almost a two year hiatus in a relationship, its almost like starting over again though, I have no approach anxiety. So, you stay away from batting average and acknowledging rejection? Its been a long time since I met a girl where there is strong chemistry. Mostly hit and miss or one night stand not that I am seeking to get into a relationship. At least, not for a long time.



I usually don't get rejected anymore, usually, as I know when to approach, and how to command attention properly, and I've pushed my limits pretty hard lately even opening with a boner haha, so I've learned from the extreme good and bad.  I've definitely learned what NOT to do from being fucking the worst guy ever at opening in the past. This doesn't usually mean in big ways and a lot of guys misinterpret that. You can command attention with very little, it depends on what's going on, the environment, where the girl is, etc.

But no, I don't really see rejection. I'm buying now. If she's a real bitch, and I don't like her tude, and I'm cooler than her, I'll walk off. That's usually the LSE people anyway, though sometimes a front. Just have to read the situation.
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#35
OutofBacon!

OutofBacon!

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power_level_over9000 wrote:

OutofBacon! wrote:
 
No way dude, I mean yes all girl's in a way ARE attention whores, but also no, they aren't. I know again...This comes back to having and holding these two opposing beliefs firmly in your head. Girls not TXTing you back is not them giving you their # so they are attention whores, they crave attention, but also the reason they're not getting back to you is not because of that.

You're looking at it in a negative way, and I understand you're thinking as I still have moments like that, (fuck these hoes! don't they just want my dick?! ;)  If you were fucking them, you wouldn't be calling them attention whores.

Lately, girls follow up with me. Whether I get the number from a 6 or an 8. That's where you want to be. But not all girls. I don't count ratios. I just see everything as a learning experience. This also helps get rid of emotional investment, which will also help your game hugely. Even ridding oneself of micro investing I came up with last night when out. So I see everything as a learning experience, and yet I'm also trying to make a connection with a girl. So it's sort of the positive of both, it's all a learning experience, but I like making out, and fucking, and getting to know people.

I get follow up and texting but, it doesn't always pan out as we would expect. I am not so sure I agree with not calling them a attention just cause of sex. Before my relationship, a girl picked me up, and still, she revealed herself as an attention whore. How? She would patrol the bar for free drinks. She would test me and to see how I would react, if I would give chase or if I would approach girls. I obviously went to approach and pick up other girls. She came back and we had sex. It clearly was not match made in heaven or a future girlfriend. I think this is quite common. I wont label all girls this way since, I don't think it will do them or myself justice.

I think the relationship ending, I am having negative feelings though, I don't feel like I am venting or lashing out. It is probably unconscious of me. Its good a buddy points it out. I am doing a bunch of things like reading Eckhart, meditating, and doing hot yoga. It feels great so, I don't feel like I am missing something. I would say Jeffy's a third princple is money. Some, we hangout, some flake, and some fuck. I am curious about calibration cause with such high success of numbers in the 6 weeks of being back in game, 99% ratio for numbers is pretty good. The 1% I don't count was the girl who showed little interest. A third hung out, much less were open to sex or anything romantic.

Do you make out in the clubs a lot? I find, if I were to be doing that, I may as well leave with her. The thing is that, a lot make out, and not all will leave so, it seems like a waste of time. I escalate hard when it feels right. There is no fear here. Maybe I am expecting too much of myself so quickly. In the past 6 weeks, I must admit, I am doing pretty good, and I think for the most part, handling the break up quite well. Zero contact with my ex.
They are attention whores, like I said. I didn't say they weren't, I said it's not the reason these girls aren't getting back to you, and that's not the first thing that pops into my head about woman or why a girl may not get back to me. I see it as a failure in my game so I can improve that. If I had better game or a better interaction, she'd be the one chasing me. Or at the least, meet up with me with fairly simple, easy TXTs.

You're probably not doing as well because you just got out of a long term relationship. That will fuck up anyone.

I make out a lot because it's fun, and that's a core of good game when out (fun that is). It makes me have fun, makes the interaction memorable, shows intent pretty god damn well, and usually I can pull the girl if I make out. I have pulled a girl I haven't made out with before, and I know guys who go on day 2's a lot with girls they haven't made out with just from a #. To me, that's too much work and not my style.


The most important thing is to do what YOU want. Act through your intent.  I make out, because I like it, and I get bored otherwise quickly. I fingerbang on occasion because I want to. Whatever it is.
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#36

asylumpatient

Junior Member

Join Date: 06/09/2012 | Posts: 10

You probably scared the shit out of the poor guy.
Tyler, what you talk about is not being result-oriented and just having fun with the process and knowing the process will bring the results sooner or later. And that works for you - and for a lot of other guys - because they enjoy the process. But then those people are usually not the good comparison - for a dude who enjoys going out and being social with the others and does so regularly getting laid is not a problem at all.

The idea of comparing the results comes from the people who do NOT enjoy the process. Think of going to a dentist - do you really enjoy the process and have fun in the seat, or you just focus on the result? It is the same. Maybe they're autistic or spend all the time playing world of warcraft. It doesn't matter. If a person does not enjoy the social interaction, your advice of "go out and meet people" makes zero sense. Before making such a major investment - in time, effort, money - it is pretty reasonable to estimate whether it worth it at all, since as you obviously know there are other options. It is basically asking whether it makes sense to even start getting into this for someone who is a creepy loser who will never enjoy social interactions even half as much as you do. Too bad your post doesn't help here.
Tyler wrote:
By my version of reality, your version of reality is HORRIBLE. :)

For example I had sex with a super cute, fun, AMAZING girl all weekend.  She was so laidback and easy to be with, honestly it was like fucking magic being with her.  She crashed in my hotel and helped me run the program.  So much fun.

(On average I pull 2 or 3 new girls per BC recently...My sexlife lately has been totally obnoxious.)

That night I approached like half the girls in the bar, most of which had fun, hilarious interactions with me.  A few of which ignored me.  A few of which made out with me and mauled me (like full makeouts and grabbing me dick and whatnot -- when like 5 or 6 girls do this to you in a night, it's like being in an ORGY).  And then the ONE who I took home who stayed with me over the whole weekend.

The following nights I went out with her and had similar results with other girls -- totally fun and hysterical.  Just such a fun weekend overall.  Full hilarity, cracking jokes, having so much fun, loving life, etc.

By YOUR view of the world, I failed.and I suck with girls.  LOL.  Get a life homie, it isn't about being a creepy loser who hates socializing and views all social interaction through a lens of "win or fail".  Most girls you approach aren't even worth fucking.  Get out there and meet the girls you have chemistry with, you'll find that you have a ton of fun and have more sex than you can handle.

So much of my life is spent jamming my dick into wet holes at this point, I'm looking to spend less time on it.  Is that FAILING?  Does that mean "game doesn't exist"?  Or does it mean you're a creeper who hates socializing and hates YOURSELF so you view everything like you won or lost?

Not trying to be a dick here, but as Synergist mentioned, I despise this type of mindset.  The PUA Batting Average frame is the worst mentality in the entire community., there is literally no mentality more limiting and self destructive to your success.  I'm gonna make more videos to remove this mindset, because it's held guys sexlives back for years.  Lose your ego and go have fun with ALL people.  You will get laid more than you can handle.  It's not about winning or losing, it's about having fun and getting laid.

Tyler
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#37

toil1823

Junior Member

Join Date: 07/16/2012 | Posts: 16

Woah thanks for all the responses guys (except for the rude people). A lot more than I expected to get. I won't quote them individually but my thoughts are basically like this;

The reason why I am doing this is not to smash as many as I can. I just want to get better with women so that I can land someone who is good wife material for a LTR. Obviously I don't mind banging a few along the way but I would never have a ONS (girl tried to take me home the other week was a stage 5 clinger tho). A ONS seems repulsive to me. Also I resent the mentality that some guys have; the people that pick up a drunk 5/10 at a club and think that means they have game/are a PUA. I see no point in that, just a notch in your bed post but you arent learning anything from it. I dont mind fuckin on like the second date but when its a random in the club you havent really even spoken to it just seems too inpersonal and makes me think they have a lot of stds especially if they are the one approaching.

I just want to get better. So a success as far as I define it as a girl having a positive response; being able to attract them and noticebly see taht I am pressing buttons. If I can master that stage and then eventually master escalating so that I can then have the skills to get a good wife. 

Is it weird that a lot of girls I don't get nervous around and can talk to fine but when its someone I like I just turn full beta and get nervous? Or is that everyone... also approaching is harder for me because my face goes red when i get embarrassed and its like an outward sign that you are intimidated and girls probably pick up on it? (excuses I know)

but yeah that is basically where I am at. Also, I seem to be able to get younger girls way easier (16-19). 16 is legal here so not really a problem is it? Does everyone find it easier to get younger girls. Btw I am 21. My txt game is good just want unwavering confidence in person.
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#38
alienantfarm

alienantfarm

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Join Date: 01/21/2011 | Posts: 1353

Hey guys, I want UNWAVERING CONFIDENCE to land that 1 girl to make my wife, how can I get UNWAVERING CONFIDENCE without sacking up, doing a shit ton of approaches, getting rejected and stuff bros?
toil1823 wrote:
Woah thanks for all the responses guys (except for the rude people). A lot more than I expected to get. I won't quote them individually but my thoughts are basically like this;

The reason why I am doing this is not to smash as many as I can. I just want to get better with women so that I can land someone who is good wife material for a LTR. Obviously I don't mind banging a few along the way but I would never have a ONS (girl tried to take me home the other week was a stage 5 clinger tho). A ONS seems repulsive to me. Also I resent the mentality that some guys have; the people that pick up a drunk 5/10 at a club and think that means they have game/are a PUA. I see no point in that, just a notch in your bed post but you arent learning anything from it. I dont mind fuckin on like the second date but when its a random in the club you havent really even spoken to it just seems too inpersonal and makes me think they have a lot of stds especially if they are the one approaching.

I just want to get better. So a success as far as I define it as a girl having a positive response; being able to attract them and noticebly see taht I am pressing buttons. If I can master that stage and then eventually master escalating so that I can then have the skills to get a good wife. 

Is it weird that a lot of girls I don't get nervous around and can talk to fine but when its someone I like I just turn full beta and get nervous? Or is that everyone... also approaching is harder for me because my face goes red when i get embarrassed and its like an outward sign that you are intimidated and girls probably pick up on it? (excuses I know)

but yeah that is basically where I am at. Also, I seem to be able to get younger girls way easier (16-19). 16 is legal here so not really a problem is it? Does everyone find it easier to get younger girls. Btw I am 21. My txt game is good just want unwavering confidence in person.
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Read my review of Get Laid or Die Trying

My personal philosophy: You need to step to every single girl like a fucking bomb. You need to have presence. You need to stand out, and not in a surface level way such as what you're wearing, but as who you are and the way in which you communicate. You need to be unforgettable. You need to create a sense of urgency, that you are now or never. You need to push and at the same time be completely willing to walk away. It is essential to disidentify with the ego, otherwise the inherent rejection associated with pickup will destroy you.

"You need to let them know what kind of man you are, so they know what kind of woman to be."
"Fear is always a constant, but accepting it...makes you stronger."
"Once you done slayed 20-30 of them hoodrats, now you ready to go up to the upper echelon type ho."
"I've got no game. And every face looks the same. They've got no name. So I don't need game to play. I just say whatever I want to whoever I want. Whenever I want, wherever I want, however I want."
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#39
mikevick07

mikevick07

Trusted Member

Join Date: 01/08/2012 | Posts: 2382

to me, the HARDEST part of the game is getting that FIRST approach of the day/night out the way because I almost ALWAYS fuck it up even tho I feel good AFTER I do it.....once I do that, everything else is pretty much automatic
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#40
Sexyasian

Sexyasian

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Join Date: 03/25/2008 | Posts: 691

Pretty much any girl who I am interested in and is single will give me her number. But that doesn't really mean shit in the states.

When you are a newbie, you must do 20+ approaches a night / maybe the whole venue. Why? Because you are inexperienced and thus you are going to get blown out quite a bit if you dunno what you are doing.

Once you get into intermediate, you can do maybe 10 approaches a night per venue. Why? Because you are INTERACTING with them longer and better, hell you can do a lot of flash game, but it DOESNT do jack shit. I've learned from this. You may become a dancing bear, funny and thing at the moment, but no chance on a day 2 / lay.

After that plateau, you should be hitting considerably less. These days, when I go to the club / bar, I maybe talk to 1 - 2 girls in each venue. I don't count girls who are taken / initial crap anymore. So 1 - 2 targets, usually get 1 solid number / kiss and do a day 2 or go for the pull. Its because these 1-2 are SOLID interactions which can TAKE the whole night, and shes then comfortable and knows you well enough to agree to a day 2 / lucky pull :)

Contrary to the PUA stuff posted here, girls like to feel "special" and hate the "creepers" who prowl around the club trying to grind on every girl. Its real stupid looking back at it now.
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