THE FORUMS
Hate to use my first post this way....
yet I've enjoyed this board for a long time (maybe two years)
Thorzen is my second least favorite fag (keyboard jockey) on this site.
Progress Now is the most irritating.
There are no two people that I prefer less to hear from than either one of these guys. Ambiguity sucked, but at least he was interesting. Thorzen is self-righteous, for no good reason, and bumps a topic from the biggest KJ that ever graced RSD... progress now. They single-handedly make this forum less interesting and less real. No matter what Thorzen says in response to this, he is a rookie fucking fag-douche and no one takes anything he says seriously. They know already that he' a KJ and just wants to talk about vague concepts.
Which is cool if you enjoy theoretical, unreal and untested bullshit.
I believe in an RSD that comes from FEILD-TESTED experience. not some lonely fag at his computer desk logically considering the most effective ways to meet chicks. GO AWAY THORZEN. Take a break from the posts and stop assuming you have the answer. As far as I'm concerned, you are a nerd with a brain and a keyboard. Both good counts, but it doesnt mean it belongs on a forum for social dynamics. You aren't an instructor, quit pretending to be one.
If that's what you feel, that's what you feel. You truly, authentically, purely hate me? Cool, all the power in the world to you, get that shit out of your system. At least you're being real, which in my book is better than being nice. yet I've enjoyed this board for a long time (maybe two years)
Thorzen is my second least favorite fag (keyboard jockey) on this site.
Progress Now is the most irritating.
There are no two people that I prefer less to hear from than either one of these guys. Ambiguity sucked, but at least he was interesting. Thorzen is self-righteous, for no good reason, and bumps a topic from the biggest KJ that ever graced RSD... progress now. They single-handedly make this forum less interesting and less real. No matter what Thorzen says in response to this, he is a rookie fucking fag-douche and no one takes anything he says seriously. They know already that he' a KJ and just wants to talk about vague concepts.
Which is cool if you enjoy theoretical, unreal and untested bullshit.
I believe in an RSD that comes from FEILD-TESTED experience. not some lonely fag at his computer desk logically considering the most effective ways to meet chicks. GO AWAY THORZEN. Take a break from the posts and stop assuming you have the answer. As far as I'm concerned, you are a nerd with a brain and a keyboard. Both good counts, but it doesnt mean it belongs on a forum for social dynamics. You aren't an instructor, quit pretending to be one.
The keyjockey thing is a moot point though, i'm not. I am a living example of what I talk about, and every moment of my life I live it, that's why I understand people so intimately, and why I have the answer, because i've been through it as well, and not by hiding from it, not by getting some new belief, by hitting it up, or by becoming delusional and arrogant, i've faced every single thing, cleaned out my inner mess, and come out a more balanced and happy person. Again I have no problem with your anger nor with what you say, if someone told me what I am telling others two years ago, I would have laughed at them, because first of all, I wouldn't understand it, and second of all, I wouldn't have believed it.
__________________
Authenticity / Congruency is attraction.
Value does not exist. There is no such thing as high or low status behavior.
Value does not exist. There is no such thing as high or low status behavior.
There has been a good amount of info on the front page about self esteem and how important high self esteem is to a man. Although it took me a few to read and understand, I learned something. Figuring out inner game stuff is great with quality chicks. They want a dude who is grounded.
Listening to Nathaniel Branden’s “Six Pillars of Self-Esteem”,
I’m currently in the self-acceptance chapter and heard some very relevant
info. As you may know, congruence basically
means “self-acceptance”: accepting who you are, how you feel, what you’re
thinking at THIS MOMENT. The following
quote from the book explains the mental process of “self-accepting”, or being
congruent:
“So if you can’t accept the experience, accept the
resistance. And if you can’t accept your
resistance, accept your resistance to accepting your resistance. Eventually, you’ll arrive at the point you
can accept, and then you can move forward from there.” - Nathaniel Branden, “Six Pillars of
Self-Esteem.”
Now, here is the “RSD” version of that same quote, or at
least what it would translate to with more relevancy on these forums:
“So if you can’t accept your nervousness, accept the
resistance to your nervousness. And if
you can’t accept the resistance to your nervousness, accept your resistance to
accepting the resistance to your nervousness.”
Basically, Nathaniel was making a reference to a client of
his who struggled with anger. Nathaniel
asked the client to say aloud, “I accept my anger.” The client became angrier and said, “I refuse
to accept my anger!” Nathaniel asked him
to say aloud, “I accept my refusal to accept my anger.” The client became even more flustered, and
Nathaniel continued to have the client say that he accepts his refusal to
accept his refusal to accept his anger…” and so forth. Well, eventually the client reached a point
where he broke down laughing: the anger was gone, it had just dissolved. What happened here?
Basically, it’s the old adage, “what you resist, persists.” When you feel nervous at the bar or club (or
wherever), there are 2 ways you can mentally/emotionally confront these
feelings: 1) RESISTANCE or 2)
ACCEPTANCE.
1) RESISTANCE: Nathaniel Branden writes, “[resistance is
done] when we deny and disown our emotions, first by avoiding awareness of our
reality, then constructing our breathing and tightening our muscles to cut off
or numb the feeling, and finally, disassociating ourselves from our own
experience.”
2) ACCEPTANCE:
Nathaniel Branden writes, “[acceptance is done by] first, focusing on
the feeling or emotion, then breathing gently and deeply allowing the muscles
to relax, allowing the feeling to be FELT, and finally, making real that this
is my feeling. This is what we call “OWNING
it”.
Notice the critical difference in those two definitions. With resistance, you end up disassociated from
your own experience.” With acceptance,
you end up “allowing the feeling to be FELT, making real that this is my
feeling”, you are OWNING YOURSELF. To be
in the moment INCLUDES accepting how shitty you feel right now. You can’t get to the club and say, “okay, I’m
already nervous from the loud music, hot girls, and alpha males strutting
around, so let me “be in the moment” so I can feel good.” But you can’t be in the moment by ignoring
and BYPASSING your nervousness in order to feel blissful. To TRULY BE “in the moment”, you first have
to ACCEPT the way you feel, because in THAT MOMENT, you felt nervous, so until
you accept that, you can’t be in the moment. But this whole “be in the moment”
part is a bit of a side-tangent (though quite relevant).
Now, on the flipside, notice the outcome of “resistance”: “disassociated
from your own experience.” What have you
read about the importance of being yourself?
About acting through your own intentions? What could be more CONTRARY to acting through
your own intentions and being yourself than being “disassociated from your own
experience?” This is EXACTLY why you get
rejected so nastily, why you’re such a creep: you do not even have the
self-respect and dignity to OWN (notice the word OWNING in Nathaniel Branden’s
definition). There’s a difference
between a man who can face his fears, and a man who is so cowardly he cannot
even confront them, and so chooses denial and disassociation instead. To NOT be congruent to who you are in the
moment is the most cowardly, zombie-like decision/way of being you can choose.
So, in essence, being congruent may not be as great as being charismatic and "in state", but congruence is the MOST respectable, self-owning, dignified, and productive way to move your way up from your current state of nervousness and insecurity. I've personally played around with congruence out there and have found that it is FAR MORE efficient and clean in terms of overcoming those initial feelings of fear. One example, I was at a bar, and I was already in a bad mood because I'd seen a video of children being shot to death in Iraq, but I was invited to this bar by a friend. So, as I left the house, picked up my friend, and drove to the bar, I CONSCIOUSLY chose to EMBRACE and ACCEPT my current feelings (the anger and disgust from the video I'd seen, and also the slight nervousness I felt in the fact that I was going out). That's right: I went to a packed bar, surrounded by a table of about 9 of my friend's friends whom I'd never met before, and just ACCEPTED who I was, how I felt, and what I represented as an individual human being at that point in time. The impulse to RUN AWAY, deny, hide, escape, and disassociate myself from the feelings I had (which were UTTERLY contrary to socializing and flirting, no thanks to that sobering video of war in Iraq and my subtle nervousness) came up a few times during the start of the night, but I focused on WHO I WAS and HOW I FELT, and EMBRACE AND ACCEPTED it.
Well, I soon felt this soothing sense of relaxation, one I've seldom felt when out in the field (unless I choose congruence at the start of the night, or have done trillions of approaches to reach state). I basically felt chilled out, like there was no need to impress anyone. And hey, as I looked around to see what people thought of me, I fuckin noticed that no one was looking, people were all minding their own business. I was not some creep who pre-emptively assumes people are scrutinizing him. Instead, I was just another down-to-earth individual who may have not been loud, social, and with a smile on his face (offering value), but I certainly was not a negative, self-depreciating masochist who brought angst to the bar (TAKING value).
Well, I ended up flirting with 3 girls, later going back to their place with a couple buddies, and the flirtation/fun continued. They may have noticed my serious attitude at the start of the night (which quickly dissolved, by the way), but at least I had the balls/foundation/dignity to not RUN/escape/disassociate from it. It was just totally crazy to me, because when I usually go out, there's this wall of resistance that never seems to go away, and I realize now that this is because instead of ACCEPTING it, I would RESIST it by either getting angrier and more frustrated about it, or by pretending it wasn't there (because to pretend it's not there is to REPRESS it, which is another form of denial/disassociation). What could be more destructive to your self-esteem than denying your authentic feelings (which define who you TRULY are) and locking them away in some place deep in your psyche?
As for WHY ACCEPTING seems to work better than RESISTING? I would say it's because the feelings of nervousness (or the limiting beliefs you have) are completely illusory, they are not real. They are mental phantoms you create, and believe it or not, YOU SUSTAIN THEM. How do you sustain them? Well, this is where the counter-intuitive zen paradox comes into place. In your mind, where your nervousness exists, the nervousness is illusory. You have made it up, and have chosen to sustain it. Now, when you feel these feelings, MOST people's impulse is to RESIST it, or basically get angry, frustrated, or deny/disassociate from them. However, isn't the fact that you're RESISTING the nervousness an indicator that the nervousness -- these illusions -- are REAL? If you're resisting something you made up in your mind, then that, in a sense, is basically saying that it is REAL, because you have to ADDRESS it. If the nervousness is illusory (and it IS), why would you have to resist it in the first place?
Now, on the OTHER HAND, if you choose to ACCEPT the nervousness, and GIVE IN TO IT, it is basically going to DISSOLVE. "What you resist, persists." If you accept the illusion of nervousness that you've created and sustained in your mind, then you are no longer feeding it, and it dissipates.
ACCEPTANCE dissolves your negative, illusory nervousness/limiting beliefs.
RESISTANCE SUSTAINS your negative, illusory nervousness/limiting beliefs.
The point is: Accept yourself, then work your way up from there, all the while accepting yourself again and again as you go along and are greeted with the impulse to deny or disassociate.
- Name of the book is "The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem" by Nathaniel Branden, great read (or listen, for me) so far.
I’m currently in the self-acceptance chapter and heard some very relevant
info. As you may know, congruence basically
means “self-acceptance”: accepting who you are, how you feel, what you’re
thinking at THIS MOMENT. The following
quote from the book explains the mental process of “self-accepting”, or being
congruent:
“So if you can’t accept the experience, accept the
resistance. And if you can’t accept your
resistance, accept your resistance to accepting your resistance. Eventually, you’ll arrive at the point you
can accept, and then you can move forward from there.” - Nathaniel Branden, “Six Pillars of
Self-Esteem.”
Now, here is the “RSD” version of that same quote, or at
least what it would translate to with more relevancy on these forums:
“So if you can’t accept your nervousness, accept the
resistance to your nervousness. And if
you can’t accept the resistance to your nervousness, accept your resistance to
accepting the resistance to your nervousness.”
Basically, Nathaniel was making a reference to a client of
his who struggled with anger. Nathaniel
asked the client to say aloud, “I accept my anger.” The client became angrier and said, “I refuse
to accept my anger!” Nathaniel asked him
to say aloud, “I accept my refusal to accept my anger.” The client became even more flustered, and
Nathaniel continued to have the client say that he accepts his refusal to
accept his refusal to accept his anger…” and so forth. Well, eventually the client reached a point
where he broke down laughing: the anger was gone, it had just dissolved. What happened here?
Basically, it’s the old adage, “what you resist, persists.” When you feel nervous at the bar or club (or
wherever), there are 2 ways you can mentally/emotionally confront these
feelings: 1) RESISTANCE or 2)
ACCEPTANCE.
1) RESISTANCE: Nathaniel Branden writes, “[resistance is
done] when we deny and disown our emotions, first by avoiding awareness of our
reality, then constructing our breathing and tightening our muscles to cut off
or numb the feeling, and finally, disassociating ourselves from our own
experience.”
2) ACCEPTANCE:
Nathaniel Branden writes, “[acceptance is done by] first, focusing on
the feeling or emotion, then breathing gently and deeply allowing the muscles
to relax, allowing the feeling to be FELT, and finally, making real that this
is my feeling. This is what we call “OWNING
it”.
Notice the critical difference in those two definitions. With resistance, you end up disassociated from
your own experience.” With acceptance,
you end up “allowing the feeling to be FELT, making real that this is my
feeling”, you are OWNING YOURSELF. To be
in the moment INCLUDES accepting how shitty you feel right now. You can’t get to the club and say, “okay, I’m
already nervous from the loud music, hot girls, and alpha males strutting
around, so let me “be in the moment” so I can feel good.” But you can’t be in the moment by ignoring
and BYPASSING your nervousness in order to feel blissful. To TRULY BE “in the moment”, you first have
to ACCEPT the way you feel, because in THAT MOMENT, you felt nervous, so until
you accept that, you can’t be in the moment. But this whole “be in the moment”
part is a bit of a side-tangent (though quite relevant).
Now, on the flipside, notice the outcome of “resistance”: “disassociated
from your own experience.” What have you
read about the importance of being yourself?
About acting through your own intentions? What could be more CONTRARY to acting through
your own intentions and being yourself than being “disassociated from your own
experience?” This is EXACTLY why you get
rejected so nastily, why you’re such a creep: you do not even have the
self-respect and dignity to OWN (notice the word OWNING in Nathaniel Branden’s
definition). There’s a difference
between a man who can face his fears, and a man who is so cowardly he cannot
even confront them, and so chooses denial and disassociation instead. To NOT be congruent to who you are in the
moment is the most cowardly, zombie-like decision/way of being you can choose.
So, in essence, being congruent may not be as great as being charismatic and "in state", but congruence is the MOST respectable, self-owning, dignified, and productive way to move your way up from your current state of nervousness and insecurity. I've personally played around with congruence out there and have found that it is FAR MORE efficient and clean in terms of overcoming those initial feelings of fear. One example, I was at a bar, and I was already in a bad mood because I'd seen a video of children being shot to death in Iraq, but I was invited to this bar by a friend. So, as I left the house, picked up my friend, and drove to the bar, I CONSCIOUSLY chose to EMBRACE and ACCEPT my current feelings (the anger and disgust from the video I'd seen, and also the slight nervousness I felt in the fact that I was going out). That's right: I went to a packed bar, surrounded by a table of about 9 of my friend's friends whom I'd never met before, and just ACCEPTED who I was, how I felt, and what I represented as an individual human being at that point in time. The impulse to RUN AWAY, deny, hide, escape, and disassociate myself from the feelings I had (which were UTTERLY contrary to socializing and flirting, no thanks to that sobering video of war in Iraq and my subtle nervousness) came up a few times during the start of the night, but I focused on WHO I WAS and HOW I FELT, and EMBRACE AND ACCEPTED it.
Well, I soon felt this soothing sense of relaxation, one I've seldom felt when out in the field (unless I choose congruence at the start of the night, or have done trillions of approaches to reach state). I basically felt chilled out, like there was no need to impress anyone. And hey, as I looked around to see what people thought of me, I fuckin noticed that no one was looking, people were all minding their own business. I was not some creep who pre-emptively assumes people are scrutinizing him. Instead, I was just another down-to-earth individual who may have not been loud, social, and with a smile on his face (offering value), but I certainly was not a negative, self-depreciating masochist who brought angst to the bar (TAKING value).
Well, I ended up flirting with 3 girls, later going back to their place with a couple buddies, and the flirtation/fun continued. They may have noticed my serious attitude at the start of the night (which quickly dissolved, by the way), but at least I had the balls/foundation/dignity to not RUN/escape/disassociate from it. It was just totally crazy to me, because when I usually go out, there's this wall of resistance that never seems to go away, and I realize now that this is because instead of ACCEPTING it, I would RESIST it by either getting angrier and more frustrated about it, or by pretending it wasn't there (because to pretend it's not there is to REPRESS it, which is another form of denial/disassociation). What could be more destructive to your self-esteem than denying your authentic feelings (which define who you TRULY are) and locking them away in some place deep in your psyche?
As for WHY ACCEPTING seems to work better than RESISTING? I would say it's because the feelings of nervousness (or the limiting beliefs you have) are completely illusory, they are not real. They are mental phantoms you create, and believe it or not, YOU SUSTAIN THEM. How do you sustain them? Well, this is where the counter-intuitive zen paradox comes into place. In your mind, where your nervousness exists, the nervousness is illusory. You have made it up, and have chosen to sustain it. Now, when you feel these feelings, MOST people's impulse is to RESIST it, or basically get angry, frustrated, or deny/disassociate from them. However, isn't the fact that you're RESISTING the nervousness an indicator that the nervousness -- these illusions -- are REAL? If you're resisting something you made up in your mind, then that, in a sense, is basically saying that it is REAL, because you have to ADDRESS it. If the nervousness is illusory (and it IS), why would you have to resist it in the first place?
Now, on the OTHER HAND, if you choose to ACCEPT the nervousness, and GIVE IN TO IT, it is basically going to DISSOLVE. "What you resist, persists." If you accept the illusion of nervousness that you've created and sustained in your mind, then you are no longer feeding it, and it dissipates.
ACCEPTANCE dissolves your negative, illusory nervousness/limiting beliefs.
RESISTANCE SUSTAINS your negative, illusory nervousness/limiting beliefs.
The point is: Accept yourself, then work your way up from there, all the while accepting yourself again and again as you go along and are greeted with the impulse to deny or disassociate.
- Name of the book is "The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem" by Nathaniel Branden, great read (or listen, for me) so far.
__________________
Currently discovering deeper connections with women.
I'd say they don't want a dude that is grounded emotionally, but one who can stay grounded through all his own emotions. Not grounded because of his emotions, but in spite of them.
Which naturally happens when you accept all your moods and thoughts. You start moving towards the center of the circle. And women like that, I think it gives them a stability they need, because I assume being a woman can be pretty chaotic being much more controlled by emotions.
Which naturally happens when you accept all your moods and thoughts. You start moving towards the center of the circle. And women like that, I think it gives them a stability they need, because I assume being a woman can be pretty chaotic being much more controlled by emotions.
__________________
Authenticity / Congruency is attraction.
Value does not exist. There is no such thing as high or low status behavior.
Value does not exist. There is no such thing as high or low status behavior.
UtopiaFive
Trusted Member
Join Date: 09/16/2008 | Posts: 4697
Progress-now seems aight didnt think he posted much. OP is aight and the book is good.
Yeah thorzen may be a less cool version of ambiguity. Just as annoying, nowhere near as amusing...
Is what it is tho. At least when i have haters im going out hehe.
yet I've enjoyed this board for a long time (maybe two years)
Thorzen is my second least favorite fag (keyboard jockey) on this site.
Progress Now is the most irritating.
There are no two people that I prefer less to hear from than either one of these guys. Ambiguity sucked, but at least he was interesting. Thorzen is self-righteous, for no good reason, and bumps a topic from the biggest KJ that ever graced RSD... progress now. They single-handedly make this forum less interesting and less real. No matter what Thorzen says in response to this, he is a rookie fucking fag-douche and no one takes anything he says seriously. They know already that he' a KJ and just wants to talk about vague concepts.
Which is cool if you enjoy theoretical, unreal and untested bullshit.
I believe in an RSD that comes from FEILD-TESTED experience. not some lonely fag at his computer desk logically considering the most effective ways to meet chicks. GO AWAY THORZEN. Take a break from the posts and stop assuming you have the answer. As far as I'm concerned, you are a nerd with a brain and a keyboard. Both good counts, but it doesnt mean it belongs on a forum for social dynamics. You aren't an instructor, quit pretending to be one.
Coming to you every Sunday...
►Part I -- What Tyler means by "Drop the Self-Image Paradigm"
►Part II -- [What Do You Want to Hear About On a Coming Sunday?]