THE FORUMS
The "really liking" feeling is always family-iar. It's hoping you can get now, what you didn't get then. The feeling is so overwhelming, you can FORGET about seeing the pattern. You always "lock and key" attract. Flash analysis is bullshit. Take Russel Brand and Katie Perry. He didn't care, had other options, focused on what he wanted and "got" the girl. But the REAL pattern is the driver.
Katy wants what she can't have PLUS she wants to be abandoned by emotionally unavailable men. So she's ONLY attracted to addicts. And Russel the same. Both are disconnected with their past patterns, so they repeat and repeat.
If the inner reality is being skipped, the only way to keep the scam going is to make SURE the girl "likes you" more than you like her. There is no other way. Plus, there's going to be much more dopamine in "threatened abandonment" sex. It's hyper-emotional...even reaching coke levels. The end is always the same...another low self esteem high stakes power imbalance drama. The one "in control" supposedly "wins".
Self esteem, with boundaries and identity, independent and inter-dependent are where the CONNECTION is at. The woman is just SOMEONE ELSE....that you can connect and even commit WITH ....if it made sense.
Fortunately, the unfinished childhood stuff can get finished by doing the power imbalance thing...neediness, controlling etc. Why? Because eventually it all gets so nasty a guy CAN connect the dots to his patterns
and attract higher self esteem interactions. The woman is just a mirror of where your masculinity ( the ultimate self esteem) is at.
Katy wants what she can't have PLUS she wants to be abandoned by emotionally unavailable men. So she's ONLY attracted to addicts. And Russel the same. Both are disconnected with their past patterns, so they repeat and repeat.
If the inner reality is being skipped, the only way to keep the scam going is to make SURE the girl "likes you" more than you like her. There is no other way. Plus, there's going to be much more dopamine in "threatened abandonment" sex. It's hyper-emotional...even reaching coke levels. The end is always the same...another low self esteem high stakes power imbalance drama. The one "in control" supposedly "wins".
Self esteem, with boundaries and identity, independent and inter-dependent are where the CONNECTION is at. The woman is just SOMEONE ELSE....that you can connect and even commit WITH ....if it made sense.
Fortunately, the unfinished childhood stuff can get finished by doing the power imbalance thing...neediness, controlling etc. Why? Because eventually it all gets so nasty a guy CAN connect the dots to his patterns
and attract higher self esteem interactions. The woman is just a mirror of where your masculinity ( the ultimate self esteem) is at.
__________________
“When there is no enemy within, the enemies outside cannot hurt you.”
- African Proverb
- African Proverb
This is probably what the program of nature looks like.
if(Falling_in_love != neediness){
emotion=love;
probability(emotion);
} else (Falling_in_love == neediness){
emotion=creeped;
probability(emotion);
}
function probability(resulting_emotion){
if(resulting_emotion==love){
return high_probablity_of_relationship;
}else (resulting_emotion==creeped){
return creeped_feelings_and_low_probability_of_relationship;
}
}
if(Falling_in_love != neediness){
emotion=love;
probability(emotion);
} else (Falling_in_love == neediness){
emotion=creeped;
probability(emotion);
}
function probability(resulting_emotion){
if(resulting_emotion==love){
return high_probablity_of_relationship;
}else (resulting_emotion==creeped){
return creeped_feelings_and_low_probability_of_relationship;
}
}
(My apologies for delay in reply-- I'm currently in a mountain town with no internet, unless I drive to the local cafe every few days.)
JFM,
I agree with what you've said here, but I'm having a hard time really envisioning what you're talkiing about. Is there a model or person to reference when talking about this Archtype of masculinity?
I disagree re: Tony's genderlessness. From what I've seen in the Relationships material he's put out, he's a HUGE advocate for polarity in relationships, and people owning their sexuality as part of what makes their chatacter rich and attractive. Polarity, of course, is sexual in nature and Inherently Man to Woman. So, Tony's model is not necessarily feminine. His vision of masculinity includes being forward, aggressive, passionate, expressed and dominant. However, it doesn't STOP there. It also includes being present (which includes being nurturing), being available emotionally, and being vulnerable-- none of which are actually feminine traits. It's entirely possibly for a man to be in his masculinity and express these actions. With all due respect, it sounds like you're doing a bit of collapsing and projecting of your own on Tony's material. Vulnerable, Nurturing, Committed: these things do not have to equal sexless or feminine, per se. But, from the way you've described it, is sounds like they do. However, a patriarch or great father figure in a family can be completely masculine, in his power, and potent and still be vulnerable, nurturing, and committed while retaining his ability to lead, express, and be the unreactive center of the lives of those around him.
Sexuality, while being incredibly foundational to the human experience, is NOT the end of the line. We are multi-faceted beings, and it is entirely possible for a Man to be Masculine while expressing his Heart instead of his Sexuality. Does that mean his sexuality has disappeared? Not at all. Does that mean that he's less of a man? Nope. It just means he's expressing a different part of himself. In a healthy person, sexuality is only a portion of identity, not the entire enchilada
Re: real intimacy for men being about male bonding, I also disagree. While I agree that this is an important and often missing element in modern men, and probably IS a huge form of intimacy, I was referring to Male-Female intimacy, which is it's own dynamic connected to, but distinct from Male-Female sexuality. My original point is that relationships offer the opportunity for male-female intimacy, which is a profoundly beuatiful and rewarding experience when not colored by attachment to power dynamics. It's one of the most powerfully raw opportunities for a Man to express his core authentically and powerfully. Again, this is often collapsed with codependency, but actually has nothing to do with it. Commitment to mutually nurturing is not inherently codependent: it's simply an agreement to priorityze and nurture an experience that is mutually fulfilling. Whether or not that agreement is empowering or disempowering (co-d) is entirely dependent on the consciousness of the people creating it.
Truthfully, I often doubt that most people understand what Love actually is, as something distinct from neediness, validation, and receiving social feedback in general. To Love somebody requires none of those things: it only requires that you acknowledge the outflow (expressed inner value) of your own caring/presence for another person. I suspect that in our culture, Love, Validation, and Neediness are SO collpased that they are often misinterpreted as each other, which is why Love = Pain for so many people.
JFM,
I agree with what you've said here, but I'm having a hard time really envisioning what you're talkiing about. Is there a model or person to reference when talking about this Archtype of masculinity?
I disagree re: Tony's genderlessness. From what I've seen in the Relationships material he's put out, he's a HUGE advocate for polarity in relationships, and people owning their sexuality as part of what makes their chatacter rich and attractive. Polarity, of course, is sexual in nature and Inherently Man to Woman. So, Tony's model is not necessarily feminine. His vision of masculinity includes being forward, aggressive, passionate, expressed and dominant. However, it doesn't STOP there. It also includes being present (which includes being nurturing), being available emotionally, and being vulnerable-- none of which are actually feminine traits. It's entirely possibly for a man to be in his masculinity and express these actions. With all due respect, it sounds like you're doing a bit of collapsing and projecting of your own on Tony's material. Vulnerable, Nurturing, Committed: these things do not have to equal sexless or feminine, per se. But, from the way you've described it, is sounds like they do. However, a patriarch or great father figure in a family can be completely masculine, in his power, and potent and still be vulnerable, nurturing, and committed while retaining his ability to lead, express, and be the unreactive center of the lives of those around him.
Sexuality, while being incredibly foundational to the human experience, is NOT the end of the line. We are multi-faceted beings, and it is entirely possible for a Man to be Masculine while expressing his Heart instead of his Sexuality. Does that mean his sexuality has disappeared? Not at all. Does that mean that he's less of a man? Nope. It just means he's expressing a different part of himself. In a healthy person, sexuality is only a portion of identity, not the entire enchilada
Re: real intimacy for men being about male bonding, I also disagree. While I agree that this is an important and often missing element in modern men, and probably IS a huge form of intimacy, I was referring to Male-Female intimacy, which is it's own dynamic connected to, but distinct from Male-Female sexuality. My original point is that relationships offer the opportunity for male-female intimacy, which is a profoundly beuatiful and rewarding experience when not colored by attachment to power dynamics. It's one of the most powerfully raw opportunities for a Man to express his core authentically and powerfully. Again, this is often collapsed with codependency, but actually has nothing to do with it. Commitment to mutually nurturing is not inherently codependent: it's simply an agreement to priorityze and nurture an experience that is mutually fulfilling. Whether or not that agreement is empowering or disempowering (co-d) is entirely dependent on the consciousness of the people creating it.
Truthfully, I often doubt that most people understand what Love actually is, as something distinct from neediness, validation, and receiving social feedback in general. To Love somebody requires none of those things: it only requires that you acknowledge the outflow (expressed inner value) of your own caring/presence for another person. I suspect that in our culture, Love, Validation, and Neediness are SO collpased that they are often misinterpreted as each other, which is why Love = Pain for so many people.
Excellent Smoove. Remember that Tony has not integrated GENDER into the social dynamics he talks about. Tony's a guy also driven by a ROLE from his family ( overfunctioner, caretaker). Due to NOT understanding gender ( which RSD has some awesome work on), Tony can't reach or teach intimacy. And the "codependency" authors are fucked on gender too. Fucked on evolutionary psychology. The pain is that deep.
You're 100% right though...and I think SELF-KNOWLEDGE is the key. As a man...as a MALE sexual being. A lot of the "intimacy" Tony is on about is woman to woman sexually. Someone's got to move forward and take this out of the addiction paradigm...conserving the sexually healthy male.
Hard to do in an addict, scarcity, shame-based, compulsive, delusional society. It's pretty brave work. For men, real intimacy is probably tribe. Fathers. Sons. Brothers. Warriors. Family. Community. For an isolated pain-packed motherated man, with a physically or emotionally absent father ( himself compulsive), fucking and fucking and fucking might be a way to hold on.
At least Mom never leaves the picture that way. That's Tony's deal...to him, intimacy is being a caretaker and never leaving home. De-gendered "one to one". Codependency.
You're 100% right though...and I think SELF-KNOWLEDGE is the key. As a man...as a MALE sexual being. A lot of the "intimacy" Tony is on about is woman to woman sexually. Someone's got to move forward and take this out of the addiction paradigm...conserving the sexually healthy male.
Hard to do in an addict, scarcity, shame-based, compulsive, delusional society. It's pretty brave work. For men, real intimacy is probably tribe. Fathers. Sons. Brothers. Warriors. Family. Community. For an isolated pain-packed motherated man, with a physically or emotionally absent father ( himself compulsive), fucking and fucking and fucking might be a way to hold on.
At least Mom never leaves the picture that way. That's Tony's deal...to him, intimacy is being a caretaker and never leaving home. De-gendered "one to one". Codependency.
__________________
There is a difference between being vulnerable and being needy. Don't be needy.
Vulnerable is about being authentic. It's about being yourself, raw, strong and proud.
If you're bringing it to a girl, and she won't drop the games, can't relax after you pass her shit tests, then don't invest in her. She's not worthy of your time. If she can't recognize that you're totally in your power and being real with her, then she doesn't deserve you.
Vulnerable is about being authentic. It's about being yourself, raw, strong and proud.
If you're bringing it to a girl, and she won't drop the games, can't relax after you pass her shit tests, then don't invest in her. She's not worthy of your time. If she can't recognize that you're totally in your power and being real with her, then she doesn't deserve you.
hi its all well and good saying you should be vunerable but it just doesnt cut it with girls if a girl knows your vunerable from my experience she will fuck you over. we all grow up from young with these nice ideas of what love is but that fact is in getting with girls its going to fuck your mindset up if your loved up because you start thinking oh shes the one and all that crap(makes you needy,not having abundance). i mean it she could be the one that you want to marry etc but you still have to be one icey mother fucker amongst other things if you want to get with her. save all the love stuff for marriage imo
__________________
I got value out of this. So true.
Just be a Man.
Seriously.. Be a Man. Women respect that shit. IMO thats why guys get cheated on.
Im not saying that love doesnt exist or that you should be a dick 100% of the time. Just remember, the minute once you start to become clingy and needy and value seeking from your girl, the less she will respect you. Chances are those are those things (that you werent displaying) when you first met her was the reason why she was attracted to you in the first place.
Seriously.. Be a Man. Women respect that shit. IMO thats why guys get cheated on.
Im not saying that love doesnt exist or that you should be a dick 100% of the time. Just remember, the minute once you start to become clingy and needy and value seeking from your girl, the less she will respect you. Chances are those are those things (that you werent displaying) when you first met her was the reason why she was attracted to you in the first place.
__________________
"There is a difference between being vulnerable and being needy. Don't be needy."
"Vulnerable is about being authentic. It's about being yourself, raw, strong and proud. "
@smoove i dont understand how vunerable can mean being yourself,raw,strong,proud
those things what you are talking about are "being congruent to being a champ" yes.... but vunerable means something different from those qualities you list above?
"Vulnerable is about being authentic. It's about being yourself, raw, strong and proud. "
@smoove i dont understand how vunerable can mean being yourself,raw,strong,proud
those things what you are talking about are "being congruent to being a champ" yes.... but vunerable means something different from those qualities you list above?
__________________
i want to get so good at game i wish i could make julien look like the tooth fairy! ha i can dream cant i
Another absurd thread title: DO YOU EVER FEEL LIKE CRYING?
JLAIX ANSWERS: EVERY TIME I LOG ON TO THE FORUM. <<LOL
i want to get so good at game i wish i could make julien look like the tooth fairy! ha i can dream cant i
Another absurd thread title: DO YOU EVER FEEL LIKE CRYING?
JLAIX ANSWERS: EVERY TIME I LOG ON TO THE FORUM. <<LOL
Not at all.
That you see it this way means you're not being authentic.
Let's imagine that you have the courage to put your CORE on the line every day, in every moment. You say what you mean, you don't hide your feelings or desires. Your actions comes from your truth. If you're afraid, you acknowledge it. If you're horny, you acknowledge it. If you love someone, you acknowledge it.
To put all that out there ON THE LINE, and express youself truthfully all the time is AUTHENTIC. It's completely you, no filters or lies or compensation. It fucking POWERFUL. It must come from SELF ESTEEM, aka. internal validation, or else you will be totally burned and hurt like a mofo. But, if you VALUE YOURSELF, then having the courage to put yourself on the line in every moment becomes possible. This is what it means to be congruent. This is what it means to have a strong frame. To stop lying about who you are and wear who you are with pride and confidence. I promise you, to take such action requires massive, massive vulnerability. To put yourself on the line and express who you really are, weaknesses and all, take major courage. But, it's the most deeply AUTHENTIC thing you can do, and as a result, it is incredibly powerful and the attraction you get will be authentic. Isn't this what Owen & Co. are saying?
Congruent.
Expressed.
Self Validated.
Unaplologetic.
Putting yourself out there.
Proactive.
Unreactive.
That's what you become when you are truly being yourself. It's scary as fuck. It's super vulnerable. But it's you, Raw, Live and Direct. And that is something to be proud of. Women Love a man in his power. And that means being congruent and authentic with yourself.
In essence the real "game" = not having a game at all. No cover ups of who you are. Just stepping hard, raw, and real. This is authentic, vulnerable, and powerful.
Make sense now?
That you see it this way means you're not being authentic.
Let's imagine that you have the courage to put your CORE on the line every day, in every moment. You say what you mean, you don't hide your feelings or desires. Your actions comes from your truth. If you're afraid, you acknowledge it. If you're horny, you acknowledge it. If you love someone, you acknowledge it.
To put all that out there ON THE LINE, and express youself truthfully all the time is AUTHENTIC. It's completely you, no filters or lies or compensation. It fucking POWERFUL. It must come from SELF ESTEEM, aka. internal validation, or else you will be totally burned and hurt like a mofo. But, if you VALUE YOURSELF, then having the courage to put yourself on the line in every moment becomes possible. This is what it means to be congruent. This is what it means to have a strong frame. To stop lying about who you are and wear who you are with pride and confidence. I promise you, to take such action requires massive, massive vulnerability. To put yourself on the line and express who you really are, weaknesses and all, take major courage. But, it's the most deeply AUTHENTIC thing you can do, and as a result, it is incredibly powerful and the attraction you get will be authentic. Isn't this what Owen & Co. are saying?
Congruent.
Expressed.
Self Validated.
Unaplologetic.
Putting yourself out there.
Proactive.
Unreactive.
That's what you become when you are truly being yourself. It's scary as fuck. It's super vulnerable. But it's you, Raw, Live and Direct. And that is something to be proud of. Women Love a man in his power. And that means being congruent and authentic with yourself.
In essence the real "game" = not having a game at all. No cover ups of who you are. Just stepping hard, raw, and real. This is authentic, vulnerable, and powerful.
Make sense now?
__________________
it does not, being a little emotional bitch lowers your chances to zero.. If u love a chick your game should be TIGHTER when ur around her.. cuz shes fuckin awesome n so are you..
__________________
I made myself a boss then gave myself a promotion... trynna make it to the top so i could show my dogs that it exists - big sean.
Smoove, you've got some big points there...and each guy has to work out what "giving power away to a girl" means.
__________________
“When there is no enemy within, the enemies outside cannot hurt you.”
- African Proverb
- African Proverb
Die Nutte
Senior Member
Join Date: 03/17/2010 | Posts: 163
I remember some well known member on RSDN (full player) and he said "I really like this girl". Boom - she flaked and never called again!
What can we do against this?
He didn't even form an opinion in that post. What are you disagreeing with?
Strong post dude.