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December 10th, 2016
Jeffy Hotseat in Amsterdam: A Newbie's Perspective
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RandomHero

Junior Member

Join Date: 09/05/2011 | Posts: 2

 You can read all the theory you want, watch all the seminars, spend a lot of time on this forum, but you won't know what good pick-up looks like unless you see someone actually do it. That's where the Hotseat comes in. I think it will shorten the learning curve dramatically, because you'll see what good, and bad, pick-up looks like. Things you would otherwise have to find out for yourself through trial and error. Of course, it is not a substitute for actual in-field experience, but it establishes a lot of guidelines which are easy to follow and allow you to rake in results faster.

The two big things I got from the seminar are what vibing/self-amusement and smooth physical escalation look like. Jeffy is a very funny dude. 90% of what comes out of his mouth in set, as wel as during the seminar, is pure comedy gold. What is most important about this, is that it is funny to himself. When he is in set, he is first and foremost entertaining himself, not the girl. You'll actually see him laughing at himself when he says some ridiculous line he comes up with on the spot. The girls respond well to this, because he is not trying to impress them at all. He is genuinly enjoying the shit that comes out of his mouth and that is just really pleasant to be around. Add the physical escalation stack to this equation and you have Jeffy's game in a nutshell. I am a newbie and do not have a lot of approaches under my belt, but could apply these principles immediately when going out after the seminar. The "entertain myself, not the girl"-frame is very valuable. It makes you enjoy the approach a lot more, and therefore, the girl is drawn to you more.

Alex also had a small part in the Amsterdam Hotseat, but I could not really identify with him. He had a couple of good points, but he also more or less dismisses the importance of social momentum, which is insane to me. He said that when he is in the club, he feels calm and at ease immediately and is ready to do a good approach. This might be true for someone who already has a ton of macro-momentum, but a lot of guys here are dealing with, or have dealt with, some form of social/approach anxiety. Most people have to really push themselves to do their initial approaches and over the course of the night start giving less and less of a fuck to the point where they can comfortably approach anyone. It definitely works this way for me and probably for the majority of people doing this stuff. Alex also called girls "social retards" which may be true to a small degree, but I thought his definition was way too extreme. On a sidenote, this was my first encounter with Alex and I am not too familiar with his stuff, but he did not make a good first impression on me.

We also saw some short clips of Brad and Evil Stiffler. Brad's stuff was as hilarious as Jeffy's, self-amusement to the max. Evil Stiffler's is exactly what you would expect; balancing on the fine line between aggressive physical escalation and sexual assault.

Tyler's stuff was simply out of this world. It was eerily good, goosebump shit. He is just so comfortable and present that it actually freaks the girls out, but intrigues them even more. Tyler is also literally fearless. During one clip it looked like he might get punched the fuck out at any second. He did not give a fuck and kept going for the girl. A do not try this at home warning after the clip was probably warranted, lol.

The end of the seminar consisted of Jeffy's OkCupid game. Even if you don't want to get into the internet dating thing, it still shows you how he sets up a "day two" and footage of how Jeffy handles these dates.

After Hotseat, me and a friend actually ran into Jeffy and Alex on bootcamp. This was around 5am and this was one of the few bars that was still open. Pretty cool to see how these are actually conducted. However, Alex felt that we were interfering with bootcamp too much, which he of course had every right to. After all, these students pay a lot of money for the exclusive attention of their instructors, so we tried to keep our distance for the remainder of the night.

I still have a long road ahead of me, but Hotseat definitely pointed me in the right direction.
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#1
jlaix

jlaix

Instructor | Trusted Member

Join Date: 08/20/2006 | Posts: 8800

Hey man glad to meet you both at the seminar as well as at the Amsterdamned Cafe at 5am lol... this shows me you're actually going to apply this stuff, which means... your life will be changed from this program, which is EXACTLY what we wanted to accomplish when we thought it up 3 years ago. All the work and effort that went into this... it's literally exhausting to even think about the ups and downs we went through to make the Hotseat happen. But to see that guys are really getting something profound out of it, it makes it all worth it to me, seriously.

And I know what you're talking about with the new Tyler clips... watching it gives me goosebumps as well, I'm not even kidding, I had them at the program while showing it. Parts of it almost bring tears to my eyes at how fuckin over the top it is and how he just breaks through all resistance, internal and external. Truly breathtaking man.
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#2

RandomHero

Junior Member

Join Date: 09/05/2011 | Posts: 2

Alexander~ wrote:

RandomHero wrote:

Alex also had a small part in the Amsterdam Hotseat, but I could not really identify with him. He had a couple of good points, but he also more or less dismisses the importance of social momentum, which is insane to me. He said that when he is in the club, he feels calm and at ease immediately and is ready to do a good approach. This might be true for someone who already has a ton of macro-momentum, but a lot of guys here are dealing with, or have dealt with, some form of social/approach anxiety. Most people have to really push themselves to do their initial approaches and over the course of the night start giving less and less of a fuck to the point where they can comfortably approach anyone. It definitely works this way for me and probably for the majority of people doing this stuff.

Alex also called girls "social retards" which may be true to a small degree, but I thought his definition was way too extreme. On a sidenote, this was my first encounter with Alex and I am not too familiar with his stuff, but he did not make a good first impression on me.

However, Alex felt that we were interfering with bootcamp too much, which he of course had every right to. After all, these students pay a lot of money for the exclusive attention of their instructors, so we tried to keep our distance for the remainder of the night.

Ah, jeffy mentioned that I should have a look at this and clarify your understandings.

Yes, I hate the terminology "social momentum" becuase it leads newer guys to forcing themself to approach and game and "do" interactions. I said that my terminology "progessive unwinding" is almost exactly the same thing in terms of behavior except the long term effects of that idea are that you eveutlally get into a relaxed stable emotional state that allows empathy, rather than a frenzied egocentric state that can massively compromise your sense of connection you have with people you meet from cold approach, and if you feel your "social momentum" slipping then you can think that you wont be as good which will cuase you to suck and think that you suck.

At this point me, my wings and my students focus primarily on getting relaxed, monopolising their emotions so they can use them at their own free will to express themselves and cause others to be infleunced by them, not being stressed and at the mercy of other peoples' influence. Being the cuase of reaction (proactive) not in reaction (reactive).

Social momentum is a good idea for newbies, but eventually you will have to make the shift to progressive unwiding becuase you will reach a plataeu that is signified by stress applied to yourself and a fears of losing momentum. You cant lose "being unwound" - its a solid thing.

As for the comment "Social Retards", I actually individually called you a Social Retard, becuase you are one. Then I called everyone in the audience a Social Retard, then i called everyone in bars (including girls) social retards, then I called myself and Jeffy social retards.

Then, I clarifed that that terminology is in no way politically correct or a professional description to use but that its great for shock value and make the point that people are actually EXTREMELY SOCIALLY NAIIVE. 

The point was that during hotseat we are spending 8 hours intensely studing elite social dynamics, and that we need to remember the automatic value that it gives us, and that we have be to careful not to hold pedestrians in the bar to the same social standards, otherwise it will stress you out and lead you into a frustrated mindset. As students of advanced social dynamics we need to be patient with non-students and bring them up to our level.

Social retard is shock value... seems like it worked - it stood out enough for it to be one fo the few points that i made that you remembered. shades

And for interrupting the bootcamp... sure, we can chat for a few minutes, but the students have committed to us bigtime and we will defend that honour with our lives (literally). I recall you wanted us to break down how to pull threesomes with seperate girls which is a very extended answer in a fucken packed nighclub at 7am (when you are probably too drunk to remember anyway) and we are at the apex of the bootcamp. I had to ask you up to eight times to let us coach or let the student focus on their sets.

Anyone who wants to fuck with the students experience can FUCK OFF. angel At that time and place, they are our world. When you do a program, it will amuse you to be on the student side of the fence while we fuck with chodes and fatties trying to mess with yoursets and be delighted that we diplomatically remind RSD community people that its inappropriate to compromise the investing students experiences. 

I asked you to write yor questions for the main forum addressed to us, please do so and we'll be all over it as soon as we have the chance.

Enjoy the journey, if your at the begginning then these are the magicical first step that open your eyes to the new reality you should have always had.

Cheers mate, any questions about this clarification please let me know.

Alexander~
Executive Coach.
I guess we have a different definition of "social momentum". The way you describe it, is that it is like a highly dynamic "state" pumper. For me, it is more like the feeling of being rusty after not having talked to a lot of people for multiple hours/a day. Once you start talking to a lot of people (doing cold approach) the fog clears and you become more present. You don't have to think about what to say anymore, the words just flow naturally. Once you reach this, it will last for hours, regardless of whether you're continuously talking to people or not. This is also a solid state of mind.  You apparently can reach this same highly talkative, present state, without doing the first of the night "I-don't-want-to-do-this-approaches" through "progressive unwinding". I don't yet fully understand what it entails, but it sounds pretty impressive.

About the "social retard" thing. I know you said it mainly for shock value and I know what you mean by it, but some of the ideas behind it are still too extreme for me. Maybe I'll come around on this and agree with you when I'm further on my path.

I am not the guy you are talking about when we met you at the bar. That was my friend. I'm the guy who accidentally tried to blow out the bootcamp student. If I had seen his face, instead of only the back of his head, I would not have done this.

Thanks for the elaborate reaction.
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#3

Interstate

Junior Member

Join Date: 07/31/2008 | Posts: 9

Alexander wrote:
RandomHero wrote:
And for interrupting the bootcamp... sure, we can chat for a few minutes, but the students have committed to us bigtime and we will defend that honour with our lives (literally). I recall you wanted us to break down how to pull threesomes with seperate girls which is a very extended answer in a fucken packed nighclub at 7am (when you are probably too drunk to remember anyway) and we are at the apex of the bootcamp. I had to ask you up to eight times to let us coach or let the student focus on their sets.

Anyone who wants to fuck with the students experience can FUCK OFF. At that time and place, they are our world. When you do a program, it will amuse you to be on the student side of the fence while we fuck with chodes and fatties trying to mess with yoursets and be delighted that we diplomatically remind RSD community people that its inappropriate to compromise the investing students experiences.

I asked you to write yor questions for the main forum addressed to us, please do so and we'll be all over it as soon as we have the chance.


RandomHero wrote:

Alexander~ wrote:

I am not the guy you are talking about when we met you at the bar. That was my friend. I'm the guy who accidentally tried to blow out the bootcamp student. If I had seen his face, instead of only the back of his head, I would not have done this.


As the guy mentioned in two comments, I feel I need to clarify some things. First off, this was probably the first time I didn´t approach in a bar by request of someone else. I actually kissclosed the girl the bootcampstudent was talking to before he opened her and was thinking of engaging again, but for the experience of the student it´s just not right to interfere. His experience may benifit the community as a whole. So no disrespect there.  

Actually I thought it was really cool both Jeffy and Alexander took the time during a bootcamp to talk to me and my friend, while still keeping an fierce eye on the students at all time (peripheral vision at work). It shows you the instructors are intense in field, just like at the Hot Seat. 

The reason I asked a elaborate question like that was because in going over the Hot Seat in my mind after the event, it felt a bit like a missing piece, while Alexander mentioned something of a reality where threesomes are normal. I was wondering if I missed it, or if it's not something I can see happening in my reality. When someone at 7 AM appears drunk, doesn't always mean he is drunk.   
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#4
besserwisser

besserwisser

Trusted Member

Join Date: 07/28/2008 | Posts: 3090

RandomHero wrote:

I'm the guy who accidentally tried to blow out the bootcamp student. If I had seen his face, instead of only the back of his head, I would not have done this.
Priceless.

Paying for Hotseat. Then blowing out instructor's students on bootcamp.
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#5

Turok

Respected Member

Join Date: 06/08/2010 | Posts: 588

Alexander~ wrote:


[/b]
RandomHero wrote:



Yes, I hate the terminology "social momentum" becuase it leads newer guys to forcing themself to approach and game and "do" interactions. I said that my terminology "progessive unwinding" is almost exactly the same thing in terms of behavior except the long term effects of that idea are that you eveutlally get into a relaxed stable emotional state that allows empathy, rather than a frenzied egocentric state that can massively compromise your sense of connection you have with people you meet from cold approach, and if you feel your "social momentum" slipping then you can think that you wont be as good which will cuase you to suck and think that you suck.

At this point me, my wings and my students focus primarily on getting relaxed, monopolising their emotions so they can use them at their own free will to express themselves and cause others to be infleunced by them, not being stressed and at the mercy of other peoples' influence. Being the cuase of reaction (proactive) not in reaction (reactive).

Social momentum is a good idea for newbies, but eventually you will have to make the shift to progressive unwiding becuase you will reach a plataeu that is signified by stress applied to yourself and a fears of losing momentum. You cant lose "being unwound" - its a solid thing.
This sounds like a very good way of approaching things to me OP
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