THE FORUMS

July 25th, 2017
Tolle gives a good explanation for the old being in the moment vs. striving for goals dilemma
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Jack of Hearts

Jack of Hearts

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Join Date: 01/14/2008 | Posts: 1047

after the thread about whether tolle would be a big pimp, I started looking for some more ecky on youtube and found this:



pretty interesting...

at the end he spikes the emotions of a group of japanese chicks shades oprah tests him on it but he remains unreactive
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#1
Derek H

Derek H

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Join Date: 07/29/2007 | Posts: 234

"Eckhart made a funny!" lol
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#2
JFM

JFM

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I think I'm starting to understand why Tolle only works as a short term hope.   There is nothing that he is saying that is not true....it's all true.    But that will not help him or anyone else evolve.

Why is that?

It depends on what you believe ( what Tolle says is BANG ON about belief).    If you believe something...quantum physics says...YES.   And it becomes reality.
So why is Tolle off target?  Why does it ultimately fail...and why does it attract so many angry de-sexualized men and women?   The answer is in identity.  The very same identity all bound up in the PAIN BODY.    

Instead of being all theoretical...why not be real world and specific.  Nuts and bolts.  ABC.   So let's dumb this way way down and move to where the action is.

MY OWN STORY.   OPRAH'S OWN STORY.   Those Japanese girls story...each by each.   This is where the identity stuff is.   This is where the feeling is.  This is where the illusion ( ego) of control is.  In everyone's own story.   Not in theory and "just do it"....based on floating above the pain.   Avoiding the forgiveness ( forgiveness is feeling the pain and finally becoming independent from the family system).

SInce Oprah is a public story...let's start there.   Let's go to...say....1968 when Oprah was 13 and having sex.  Of when she was 14 and pregnant.   Maybe when she was 8 and being sexually abused?   These are the feelings she needs to deal with in order to be in the moment.  Not to be on a manhating world stage where she operates a giant shit test guaranteed to work in her "favour" due to bankrupt masculinity.    She thinks she's WINNING with a self-hating de-sexualized feminized 62 year old "pop guru".   The clip is 6 women and Tolle ( 7 women) who all oooh and ahhh at his "wisdom".    

No real wisdom there.   He'd have to do his own work with his own pain body....but not a theoretical pain body.   I'm not talking about meditating.   I'm talking about getting away from the shame-based "more than human" living where a guy disconnects from his true self ( buried in unfelt grief) and tries to float around.

You don't hook up with a sexual abuse victim and do a "world event" for nothing.   Oprah represents the masculine bankruptcy of the western world.   She didn't do it...but she is an icon.

Tolle's reference group stinks.....because of the addiction he furthers and practices.   In spite of what he might say ( for example his conclusions about belief are bang on) it's what he DOES that matters.

He's not dealing with his own story and not in recovery of his grieving and encourages the most profound aspect of identity bankruptcy.   De-masculinization.   He loves to enter the field in places where there is NO SEXUALITY.    Because where there is that, there will be anger.....polarity....humanity.  Maleness.    He never goes near that.

If he did...he'd be where he needs to be.  In his own story.   His own identity process.   His own forgiveness and individuation process.   And he's not.   What he says is correct...but it's completely disconnected from human reality.   As disconnected as he is from his own pain body which he has chosen to float over ( understandable).   The idea is not to be more than human....it is to be human.   The self is THAT....not an angel without gender parts.   Without polarity.     He may talk about those concepts....but it's a dud.  It's what he does.

The partnership with the sexually abused  male-hating icon is not for nothing.   Tolle is ultimately a dead end because he doesn't deal with forgiveness and he doesn't deal with the task of the de-sexualized feminzied emotionally incested male transforming.

Deep identity level change.   That's the goal.  You can't get there with Tolle.    
   
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#3
JFM

JFM

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Oprah is not trying to win over men when she speaks to Tolle. This is a normal interaction. She's making an interview!

 You're going about one centimetre deep into what's really going on.    Most Americans thought that Fight Club was about fighting.   I would agree with you though.   For the addict society this social conditioning ( not seeing the social dynamics going on...what the real subcommunication is) is very normal.   It's everywhere.

Tolle is absolutely invisible.    Oprah is with him because of that.    This isn't psychobabble....it's just below the surface of standard issue social conditioning.    The job here is to think for yourself. 

As a guy gets deeper into the obvious, it's amazing how little of it is understood.   Tolle and Oprah are toxic for identity ...and especially masculinity.    A lot of people think that Oprah "does interviews".   Oprah doesn't do interviews.   Oprah is acting out rage...and hates men.   That's her vibe.   She's not a bad person, she's just sick.    You're convinced otherwise, so there's no real opening to see anything else.   Lot's of people are convinced that being a provider is a good way to attract women.   The list of wrong turns is as wide as the inability to think independently. 
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#4
Albi

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Join Date: 04/01/2008 | Posts: 27

I think Tolle teaches the technique of mindfulness somewhere in "A New Earth", just watching your body and emotions and painbody, and this observing dissolves emotional knots and deep traumas. So yes he does teach deep identity change.

After you've purified and taken out these deep hurts and pains in yourself, you're a clean slate. And as a clean slate, you can choose to express this purity of mind in any external form that you like. Be it a guru or a cool guy that's good with girls. You're just running on clean energy and doing your thing, giving value to the world.

Tolle's choice of image seems to be a sexually neutral sort of teacher, its his choice, it works for the work that he envisioned himself to do and so be it. He's doing a great job cos he's running on clean energy.

JFM, you on the other hand, can choose to express externally as a sexually dominant man. Whether you'll do good in your image choice depends on how clean an energy you're running on.
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#5
Jack of Hearts

Jack of Hearts

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JFM I just don't really understand your need to hate on the guy so much. You say one should be concerned with their own story, yet here you are making this big case against Eckhart Tolle, trying to convince other people to change the way they view some other person.
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#6
Albi

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I think some of us here might have the presumption that our basic nature of a man is one whereby we crave for sex and we get sex. Its true on a certain level but its not the basest form of consciousness.

The purest form of consciousness might be implied from the following: In Buddhist meditation, it is said that the final 2 desires toughest to eradicate is usually the craving of food and the craving for sex. Maybe Tolle has reached a certain state of consciousness where there's no more need for sex, I don't know. He's a meditator, its more likely that he has achieved some level of enlightenment.

However Oprah doesn't seem like a seasoned meditator to me. Her body might be wrecked by past traumas and she doesn't know how to dig em out with mindfulness. So she might be still be the unconscious man-hater JFM suggests. Well, at least she met Tolle, think it'll be a good step forward in her life.
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#7
JFM

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I think Tolle is a bad role model and someone who spreads shame....not enlightment.    To put that statement in context, as supposedly "hating on",  let's look at this comment:

 JFM I just don't really understand your need to hate on the guy so much. You say one should be concerned with their own story, yet here you are making this big case against Eckhart Tolle, trying to convince other people to change the way they view some other person.

(posted by Velouria)

Hating on and projecting is standard issue for all people....I'm not above it.    Taken to the extreme, working on your own story is actually 100% of the work....at the same time community is needed for full identity restoration, which comes in three parts.

1. With self.
2. With some kind of power great than self.
3. With others.   

So, working on your own story....dealing with your own past and avoiding the "float over" shame throw Tolle does....and does in concert with other shame throwers.   People hang together due to their vibe commonality.

You know, you could try to be diplomatic and rescue something from Tolle and Oprah, but it doesn't work.   The worst case scenario for trying to move forward is combining some kind of truth with something truly toxic ( like the true motives of Tolle and Oprah...unknown to them since they are in denial and fully codependent and addicted).   It is what it is.

This is a forum and we're trying to each deal with our own story....and interact....to evolve. 

Well, at least she met Tolle, think it'll be a good step forward in her life.
(posted by Albi)

It's no step at all....just more of the same.   Oprah hasn't changed.   Tolle hasn't changed.  Both are looking at the "more than human" route as a way out of dealing with the deep grief.   A way of not doing the work.   And they aren't doing the work.   The people who actually suggest doing real recovery work are virtually unknown.   Tolle's popularity is because it's a shortcut and avoids the hard work of processing the pain body into forgiveness.

Oprah and Tolle are on the same page....which is why they formed a partnership.   Ask anyone after five years what they think of it.   The only people who think it's great are those who have found it recently....and have gained the temporary relief of avoiding self.

What Tolle says is true...as an end product of doing the work of FEELING.    These two directing a spiritual process is like an alcoholic holding an AA meeting in a bar.   It's a dud.    As an END PRODUCT it's right....but they leave  out their process....and encourage others to do the same.   Which makes it very American.    It wouldn't be popular if it was based on having to face self.

It's shaming.  
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#8
JFM

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I think Tolle teaches the technique of mindfulness somewhere in "A New Earth", just watching your body and emotions and painbody, and this observing dissolves emotional knots and deep traumas. So yes he does teach deep identity change.
After you've purified and taken out these deep hurts and pains in yourself, you're a clean slate. And as a clean slate, you can choose to express this purity of mind in any external form that you like. Be it a guru or a cool guy that's good with girls. You're just running on clean energy and doing your thing, giving value to the world.
Tolle's choice of image seems to be a sexually neutral sort of teacher, its his choice, it works for the work that he envisioned himself to do and so be it. He's doing a great job cos he's running on clean energy.


(posted by Albi)

This is the myth.   It's really worth challenging.   Because it's not true. 
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- African Proverb
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#9
Albi

Albi

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Join Date: 04/01/2008 | Posts: 27

Why do you think he skips the process? He teaches that you should feel the painbody and experience it fully and stay on it and be present with the pain and it will go eventually. That's the process he's teaching.

Yes, he tells you his experiences at the end of the process, a lighter consciousness and internal validation and all that. But at the end of the day, the work of observing and being mindful and forgiving of your own past hurts and trauma fully is a personal job. So I don't think he skips any process at all, just that alot of people read his book and don't practise the mindfulness techniques stated.

Its like a doctor prescribing medicine and the patient just reads the prescription instead of taking the medicine.
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#10
Albi

Albi

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Join Date: 04/01/2008 | Posts: 27

JFM wrote:
I think Tolle teaches the technique of mindfulness somewhere in "A New Earth", just watching your body and emotions and painbody, and this observing dissolves emotional knots and deep traumas. So yes he does teach deep identity change.
After you've purified and taken out these deep hurts and pains in yourself, you're a clean slate. And as a clean slate, you can choose to express this purity of mind in any external form that you like. Be it a guru or a cool guy that's good with girls. You're just running on clean energy and doing your thing, giving value to the world.
Tolle's choice of image seems to be a sexually neutral sort of teacher, its his choice, it works for the work that he envisioned himself to do and so be it. He's doing a great job cos he's running on clean energy.


(posted by Albi)

This is the myth.   It's really worth challenging.   Because it's not true. 

Maybe you haven't found the right technique for you. Its not a myth to me, I did a 10 day Vipassana meditation and during which I had high fever 3 times as physical reactions while purging all those past trauma. I came out feeling much lighter. Now I do walking meditation with some EFT to start off everyday, feeling light. Tolle's words are a reflection of a personal truth for me.
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