THE FORUMS
Shape-SHIFTING! (On Becoming a Were-Alpha)
Totally excellent post! Massive value. Thanks.
So you're saying start doing things you don't normally do and this will give you perspective/insight how to control your ego/identity instead of ITcontrolling you?
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To wait for a good feeling before taking action keeps you waiting your whole life.
KevinNJ® Wrote:
Is channel 455 the now extinct spice channel? No, lets look at it this way shall we?
Say you pull a girl home, you turn on the TV just so there is some light and some background noise in the room so your mom doenst here you fucking the shit out of her. Its channel 455 and theres some infomercial on. What is yoru focus on, the girl or the infomercial. The infomercial is there, its always there, but is your awareness on it at this current moment?
NO!
Its on the smoking hot girl infront of you!
Enjoy!
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subx Wrote:
Yeah, it's like we humans all tend to identify ourselves with what we DO, what our routines are, etc. That's what ego is, that's what identity is.So you're saying start doing things you don't normally do and this will give you perspective/insight how to control your ego/identity instead of ITcontrolling you?
Routine 1:
--Wake up 6AM every weekday morning, shit/shower/shave, put on a suit & tie, grab a briefcase and head out to an office.
Routine 2:
--Climb into bed at sunrise and sleep until mid-afternoon, roll out and make some ramen (occasionally mac & cheese), watch TV, play some video games, then eventually throw on some decent clothes & grab an apron, head out to Starbucks.
Both of these guys are completely and totally PHYSICALLY capable of doing exactly what the other does. Why don't they? Because that's just not "who they are." You try and GET them to swap routines and you're going to face a shitload of resistance.
Let's say neither of them EVER include talking to hot chickies in their routine. You'll probably get just as much resistance getting them to talk to a hot piece of ACE, if y'know what I mean.
However, can you imagine being Guy #1 and being FORCED to jump into Guy #2's routine? Imagine a few days into it -- can you see how, in the midst of all that change and upheaval, if you show him a girl and say, "Hey, she's checkin' you out man. Go say hi or lick her fay or something," he's much more likely to go do it? Suddenly it's no big deal -- reference points are in flux and getting shot down is suddenly no longer a huge gigantic fucking threat to his identity.
I made the examples overly dramatic for effect, but that's essentially what we're talking about here.
EDIT: I think here 455 is the Jewish On Demand channel, but it's fucking RIFE with hotties like Julia Louis-Dreyfus and Sara Silverman, so it's still valid.
Unusually for me, I started drinking at 4:30pm yesterday (for random reasons that are unnecessary to this tale) and by the time I arrived at the pool hall I had shape-shifted into a drunk. At one point a whole bunch of girls I knew kept looking at me strangely, and it wasn't until I went to the bathroom later I realized I had "had a minor accident" on the previous visit. Thank goodness for the "don't give a fuck what people think of you" attitudes espoused here, or I might have died of shame and embarrassment.
Anyhow, later on the hottest girl in the club, who has never spoken to me in all the months I've been going there, opened me by "assisting" a waitress in an attempt to sell me a shooter. In fact she renamed the vodka, raspberry and Red Bull concoction as "the world's best sex" and tried to get me to buy it for three bucks.
Of course, I told her that neither of them were likely to be able to deliver on that promise, which cracked up the waitress.
I don't think I've ever clawed, kissed, hugged or ass-grabbed as many girls in one night in my entire life. Of course, maintaining this condition isn't exactly viable or even desirable, which is the whole point of my message. I'm going back to being my usual sober self ...
haiqu
Anyhow, later on the hottest girl in the club, who has never spoken to me in all the months I've been going there, opened me by "assisting" a waitress in an attempt to sell me a shooter. In fact she renamed the vodka, raspberry and Red Bull concoction as "the world's best sex" and tried to get me to buy it for three bucks.
Of course, I told her that neither of them were likely to be able to deliver on that promise, which cracked up the waitress.
I don't think I've ever clawed, kissed, hugged or ass-grabbed as many girls in one night in my entire life. Of course, maintaining this condition isn't exactly viable or even desirable, which is the whole point of my message. I'm going back to being my usual sober self ...
haiqu
__________________
World's premier celibate PUA and born-again virgin!
Stats since joining RSD
Kcloses: Stopped counting. Lots.
Day2s: 7
Fcloses: 0
Face slapped: 2
Refused sex with UG's: 6
Marriage / LTR proposals: 8
Helped other guys get laid: 3
Women who have declared me to be "perfect": 2
Stats since joining RSD
Kcloses: Stopped counting. Lots.
Day2s: 7
Fcloses: 0
Face slapped: 2
Refused sex with UG's: 6
Marriage / LTR proposals: 8
Helped other guys get laid: 3
Women who have declared me to be "perfect": 2
I like it for most, But what i dont like it is this.
"As soon as you do something because YOU want to DO IT, you immediately shift from value-taking ego-enhancement mode "
When you do want to do something, it may come from your identity.It may come from the person you view yourself as.
Example: I see myself as a guy who loves to talk to people and mess with them and have fun.
When you do that you are not ONLY doing from your own pleasure and ammusement, but also because of your identity and how you view yourself.
So you are doing because it is you to REMAIN congruent to your view of yourself, and it can be BOTH a value giving ( If the people like it ), or value taking if they dont like it.
But you shouldnt care what people think of you, so do whatever you want to do and dont worry if " you are giving value ".
We all unconsciously act in ways that will CONFIRM our self-image, and this is not value taking, this is how we work. I dont mean going out and asking permission or approval to be someone, just act in a way that CONFIRMS who you view yourself as.
I just dont like your generalization where you think that doing things of your ego-identity is bad.
Example : I am a successful guy with women and they love me.
When you are cocky and funny and act accordingly to that identity women love it and feel attraction, thus not being a value taking, but a VALUE giving.
Women love players. They feel horny and attracted to them. This is just the truth.
And when you show that you are a player and express yourself as a player, congruently, WOMEN LOVE IT.
What I think you are trying to say is women DONT LIKE guys who pretend to BE SOMETHING they are not. And when you fake something you arent, people dont like it.
And this sometimes is not always the true. Sometimes to become something new, you have to take incongruent behaviours and piss some people off.
"As soon as you do something because YOU want to DO IT, you immediately shift from value-taking ego-enhancement mode "
When you do want to do something, it may come from your identity.It may come from the person you view yourself as.
Example: I see myself as a guy who loves to talk to people and mess with them and have fun.
When you do that you are not ONLY doing from your own pleasure and ammusement, but also because of your identity and how you view yourself.
So you are doing because it is you to REMAIN congruent to your view of yourself, and it can be BOTH a value giving ( If the people like it ), or value taking if they dont like it.
But you shouldnt care what people think of you, so do whatever you want to do and dont worry if " you are giving value ".
We all unconsciously act in ways that will CONFIRM our self-image, and this is not value taking, this is how we work. I dont mean going out and asking permission or approval to be someone, just act in a way that CONFIRMS who you view yourself as.
I just dont like your generalization where you think that doing things of your ego-identity is bad.
Example : I am a successful guy with women and they love me.
When you are cocky and funny and act accordingly to that identity women love it and feel attraction, thus not being a value taking, but a VALUE giving.
Women love players. They feel horny and attracted to them. This is just the truth.
And when you show that you are a player and express yourself as a player, congruently, WOMEN LOVE IT.
What I think you are trying to say is women DONT LIKE guys who pretend to BE SOMETHING they are not. And when you fake something you arent, people dont like it.
And this sometimes is not always the true. Sometimes to become something new, you have to take incongruent behaviours and piss some people off.
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Think OUTSIDE the box.[/]
Hey man, great post.
So are yo usaying that by doing things I don't normally do this will change my mindset? I change departments at least 5-6 times a year as I temp around a large organisation. Yet I don't notice any changes from that.
So are yo usaying that by doing things I don't normally do this will change my mindset? I change departments at least 5-6 times a year as I temp around a large organisation. Yet I don't notice any changes from that.
@Charles:
I don't see something as value-giving or value-taking depending on how well it's received or how well-liked it is by the people around you; I see that definition as internal. Value-giving comes from a place of self-amusement, doing shit because you want to do it, while value-taking comes from a place of neediness and having to get someone else's approval. If you roll up to a girl because you think she's hot, and her boyfriend is right there, he's forced to become decisive and either let go of her, or man the fuck up and take her. That's adding value to his life, isn't it?
Also, I'm not talking about chicks, or what they like or don't like, I'm talking about YOU. When I say that you don't do shit to get good at picking up chicks -- you do it because you want to do it -- I mean that this is not a thread about how to pick up chicks, this is a thread to help you learn how to step-by-step disidentify from any one particular ego-identity and make it easier to transition to another one (or more).
I have personally had (and to an extent, am still having) trouble congruently taking the kind of action that a man who fucks a lot of women would take, and the OP was borne out of a search of my own knowledge and expertise for a solution to what I need to do -- to dissolve and disidentify with my current ego-identity, so I can more easily transition into the direction I want.
Go in for the next two weeks every day without wearing underwear.
I don't see something as value-giving or value-taking depending on how well it's received or how well-liked it is by the people around you; I see that definition as internal. Value-giving comes from a place of self-amusement, doing shit because you want to do it, while value-taking comes from a place of neediness and having to get someone else's approval. If you roll up to a girl because you think she's hot, and her boyfriend is right there, he's forced to become decisive and either let go of her, or man the fuck up and take her. That's adding value to his life, isn't it?
Also, I'm not talking about chicks, or what they like or don't like, I'm talking about YOU. When I say that you don't do shit to get good at picking up chicks -- you do it because you want to do it -- I mean that this is not a thread about how to pick up chicks, this is a thread to help you learn how to step-by-step disidentify from any one particular ego-identity and make it easier to transition to another one (or more).
I have personally had (and to an extent, am still having) trouble congruently taking the kind of action that a man who fucks a lot of women would take, and the OP was borne out of a search of my own knowledge and expertise for a solution to what I need to do -- to dissolve and disidentify with my current ego-identity, so I can more easily transition into the direction I want.
Magnatolia Wrote:
You don't see regularly changing departments at least 5-6 times a year as a routine? It sounds like that's something you normally do.Hey man, great post.
So are yo usaying that by doing things I don't normally do this will change my mindset? I change departments at least 5-6 times a year as I temp around a large organisation. Yet I don't notice any changes from that.
Go in for the next two weeks every day without wearing underwear.
I see your point, however it isn't like clockwork. For example right now I know I'm in this current position until the end of march, but probably won't know where I'm going next until closer to that day. Plus nobody tells me what's required of me. I basically find out when I rock up on day 1 lol. But that's a good point, so can you explain how this actually changes our mind or shifts our perception? I don't understand how doing something random like not wearing underwear to work will help me....
You don't understand because you've never done it. Do it and you'll understand.
Or pick something completely different, but do something. Let me know how it goes.
Or pick something completely different, but do something. Let me know how it goes.
Vic Sage
Respected Member
Join Date: 02/13/2008 | Posts: 309
One of the basic tenets of the Huna tradition of shamanism is this: "The measure of truth is effectiveness." If something doesn't work for you, then it's meaningless and you need to throw it out.
Does this mean throw out the ego? Of course not, you damned fool! But what you DO need to scrap is the ATTACHMENT to ego. BTW, I find the synonym "identity" WAY more useful than "ego" because it's less abstract and more malleable. I'll use them together in this post as "ego-identity" to maintain as much clarity as possible.
One of the reasons I love shamanistic traditions is because a big common thread they all have is the concept of shapeshifting. It's like almost every tribal culture around the world has stories of man changing into beast to accomplish some specific goal for the greater good, e.g. a tribe is on the losing end of a big, important battle until the chieftain transforms into a giant bear and begins to lay waste to the hordes of enemy warriors.
If you reasearch into any of this -- like the Carlos Castaneda books, where Carlos travels to Mexico and studies with a shaman who teaches him sorcery -- shapeshifting into your intended target always involves seeing the world through their eyes, learning to perceive reality through their ego-identity, and then the physical universe (including your physical body) changes accordingly. To use John's analogy from the other thread -- when you want to handle snow, you put on a pair of those heavy, insulated, gortex gloves (and if you're awesome, a radical image appears on the back once they get cold). If you want to perform surgery (or body cavity search, whatev) without transmitting infection, you put on the latex. Boxing gloves if you're gonna beat the shit out of somebody's head, and so on.
Can you see how this idea of shapeshifting is useful for self-actualization? The key is to learn how to shape the ego into whatever tool you need to get the job done (yes I know, dick joke, OMFG you are SO immature). Figure out what your goal is, and then figure out what elements to incorporate into your ego-identity (i.e. who or what to shapeshift into) in order to most easily and effectively hook that shit up. There will never be one right solution to any given situation/problem/goal/whatever, which is why Tim might say something that instantly resonates with one guy, and something Tyler says might DIRECTLY contradict that, yet still yields results for another guy. Whatever elements you need to add or subtract from your ego-identity will depend on what your "default" ego-identity is. For argument's sake, we can say the chieftain mentioned earlier chose the form of a bear because his nature was akin to the creature; another chieftain more wolf-like in nature would shapeshift accordingly and proceed to dash from one poor hapless fuck to the next, tearing out throats Zelda-style. Some guys here would do best to shapeshift into Entertainer Guy, and others need more James Bond energy. Get it?
My friend Tom has this idea that he needs to destroy his ego, and once that happens he'll be one of the Masters of the Universe or something, bending reality to his will, waving his hand at a hail of incoming gunfire and muttering, "No." (And I can't say from personal experience that I KNOW that he's wrong, just that it's an inefficient use of his energy and an ineffective way to go about his goal of being able to pickup women.) He's got to first learn to DISIDENTIFY with his ego, and realize that his ego-identity is just a tool that he can mould to suit the needs of any given situation.
I often tell him that the quickest way for him to get better with women is to paint his nails black, and his immediate response is always, "No YOU listen. I get what you're saying, but there are a million other things I could do to accomplish that same goal, like going up and talking to that random woman right there even though it's giving me a near heart-attack. But I'm NOT painting my nails black. It's fuckin' DUMB."
And it very well may be, but he's missing the point -- you don't do it to get good at picking up chicks, you do it to deal a blow to your ego-identity and distance yourself from it, so you're no longer attached to the identity of "Guy who never does (X)." It frees you up and breaks you out of your routines and habits, giving you perspective on your ego-identity, and THEN you can begin the process of shapeshifting into what you want. And like everything else, you get better and faster at it with practice.
Bruce Lee once said, "Be like water," and this is exactly what he was talking about.
That's not to say you MUST become good at it -- I love the freedom it gives me, and it's one of the reasons I have so much fun when I'm acting, but you could just as easily do it just enough to get whatever results you want.
Boxy Juice and I were at the Gans last weekend, and we were fucking around, laying the Ted Bundy Stare on some of the girls, when ALAS! I noted that he was holding back!
"WTF?!" I exclaimed in abject horror.
"I don't actually wanna freak them out!" he explained. I recoiled.
"And why the fuck not, Juicy?"
"Because the point is to make them attracted to you!" My head instantly erupted into a spectacular fountain of blood and gore. (It really didn't.)
No, Juice Boxer, the point is to DO IT. You know how Kevin says, "...BUT DON'T FUCK AROUND?" Where I come from (my acting school taught Meisner technique), they said, "If you're gonna do something, just really DO IT."
So I says to him, I says, "Hang on," and I open one of the chicks next to us. "Hey, is this fuckin' CREEPY?" *STARE...*
"Yeah, it kinda is."
"Cool, so blah blah blah..." I think I wound up spinning her around and talking to her about IDFK what, maybe the giant apartment atop the next building. The point is that I had Te-ed Bu-undy Eyes, and it did not fucking matter. NON-ISSUE.
As soon as you do something because YOU want to DO IT, you immediately shift from value-taking ego-enhancement mode and into value-giving self-amusement mode.
Step-By-Step
1.) Pick something arbitrary that you normally NEVER do (aside from murder, rape etc, b/c those are bad mmkay?), and do it until it becomes a habit and you've integrated that into your new, slightly (or not so slightly) different identity.
2.) Stop doing that thing!
3.) Repeat steps 1 and 2 with different random shit -- ALWAYS tying your shoes left then right (or vice versa), pushups first thing in the morning, making a point to talk to every squirrel you see in a Slingblade voice, WHATEVER.
4.) As you gain more distance from your old routines, you gain distance, perspective and power over your identity, and it will be MUCH easier for you to objectively choose how to shape your identity into the one that will best help you get what you want. That "heart attack" feeling Tom got from even THINKING about approaching some random chick, the slab of ice in Juicer's stomach -- their ego-identity saying, "No...we can't DO that!"
Fuck that. Yes you can. You and your ego-identity just need a little time apart.
Go try it.
(No, I mean right now.)
Shape-SHIFTING! (On Becoming a Were-Alpha)