Anybody else see this movie? It’s insaaanne. If you ever thought your life was tough, this movie will make you reach for the skies in gratitude for the life you have lived… and then never -never- watch this movie again.
This article has nothing to do with the movie. Just sounded like a good title for an article
In not quite as dramatic fashion, below are the prompts for an interview I did for a documentary over two years ago
on 'The Community' in Auckland, New Zealand (It’s taken this long to get them edited…). Of course the actual interview went a bit differently, but I wrote out my quick responses beforehand so I could go in a little prepared.
In 5 following articles (thanks to Mike A. for editing and Owen for inserting blurbs) will be a series of clips from the hour and a half of footage that I received from the interview. The few people that have seen it were psyched about the entire interview. I wish I could put the whole thing up, but attention spans rarely last that long.
It’s funny how it seems like only yesterday I was eating meat pies by the dozen and now it’s already been two years. Hopefully, the following will tie some things together as a whole and some things into perspective.
Interview with Nathan, Executive coach for Real Social Dynamics
BACKGROUND OF SEDUCTION COMMUNITY
- What is the seduction community? Why do you think it exists?
Result of the information age. Nothing new here. Guys and girls from the dawn of our existence have wanted to know how to better attract and keep high quality mates. For the first time, we have the depth and breadth of knowledge as well as the vehicle for mass communication to answer those questions that people have ALWAYS asked.
- What is a lair, where are they located and how many are there?
I joined one in LA for a few months when I first found out about ‘the community’ years ago (2005 pre “The Game”). Essentially, back then it was nerds getting together to exchange pick up lines. They were actually started by my friend and boss, Nick Kho, years ago. He travelled the world setting them up. How many? It’s probably in the hundreds. Just about every major city and big town in the world has one.
- What role does the internet play in the seduction community?
Huge. Information dissemination is massive
- What is a PUA?
Nerd speak for someone good with women. Natural is someone good with women. Doesn’t think about it; just is. A PUA is someone who’s learned to become good with women; most of the time they are thinking about it.
Auckland baby! With BlackandBlue!
WHAT IS YOUR STORY?
- How did you first learn about the community and why did you join?
Accidentally found David D. back in 2002 while developing a new theory and disproving Ellen Berscheid’s prevailing theory on Sexual Attraction at the University of Texas at Austin
- What were your initial goals when you started?
Be awesome. Be comfortable in any situation. I’d had my share of women before, but like many natural types it was mainly part of a particular social system. I wanted to break that crutch and have choice and abundance of not just beautiful women, but any type of woman I wanted and get them in many particular situations. Generally, I wanted to live a more abundant life and always held the philosophy of conquering my own fears in any aspect of my life.
I’d also been surrounded by failed relationships for most of my life, so I had a deep desire to figure out myself and the world around me so I wouldn’t fall into many of the same traps that many of the people I cared for had fallen into.
- What steps were involved in becoming an instructor for potential PUAs?
Already had to be “world class” with women. After that I had to have that same passion that I had for meeting and interacting with women as for teaching men. From there (2007) I spent a few months in the field observing other coaches before I went on to innovate and teach my own ‘game’ and style of coaching.
- What kinds of relationships have you had since becoming a bonafide PUA?
Don’t know when the moment was that I became a bona fide PUA, and never considered being one, but there was one incident that happened back before I was a coach that I realized that nobody was like me. It was at Porn star karaoke in LA and guys were coming up to me asking me to teach them my ‘magic’. Wow. Since then, I’ve held multiple girlfriends at a time, ONS (also relationships), a threesome though I lost the flavour for those years ago, and currently have a long term girlfriend
- What is outer game? How is it similar to a game?
I actually spoke about this briefly in my last RSD SuperConference speech in Sydney, Australia. It’s all the same to me. No difference. What I teach is this is WHO YOU ARE, not what you do. How do you go out and practice having ‘core confidence’? It’s weird, you can’t. Both concepts are 100% corollary. Without one you don’t have the other. “Outer game” is an expression of your “inner game” so to speak.
Oh my, Ray... Blind Pig-Austin, Texas Bootcamp times
- Where can you practice gaming?
We were actually joking about that at the last superconference with two of my good friends, fellow instructors, and old school community guys-Ozzie (OX) and Tim (Chariot). Ozzie was like, “Hey man, you wanna go do some street sets??”
We don’t practice. We are it. The better you get at this stuff the more you realize that it’s not about women, it’s about you. You are the only constant. Women are variables. Perception is projection. So if we are working on something it’s less about practicing ‘game’ or ‘practicing on women’, it’s really practicing on ourselves.
- What are the most popular techniques and methods?
There are tons of stuff out there. There’s the lines and the rigid structure method, the NLP methodology, the natural method and the ones in between. Method sounds strange to me though, because meeting, attracting, and creating relationships aren’t so much a method to me as it is a social art form. Men have methods. Women don’t. A ‘method’ in itself is a linear logical masculine model invention superimposing themselves over the true art form that women know it as.
- Why do you think these techniques work?
Because if you tell someone something is SO AWESOME and works 100% of the time, and they believe the marketing enough, then it gives them confidence in the lines. Confidence and certainty is massively attractive in any form to women. (The question is, “Where are you deriving your confidence?”) The dark side is that they start to believe in the lines so much and never adapt their own personality and it becomes their alter ego. All lines and routines, no real personality. For example, a lot of guys I’ve met and spoken to don’t have anything outside of ‘game’ to talk about.
The way it’s marketed is that these are the training wheels to becoming natural and gaining confidence in their own personality. From years and years of watching, learning, and teaching students, I’d say the vast majority don’t do that and they start relying and believing the lines and routines are what they are. No matter how ‘good a ‘PUA’ they become though, inside they feel like frauds.
WORKSHOPS AND STUDENTS
- How much do workshops cost?
Anywhere from $1500 to $2500 US.
Flawless Natural Workshop/Superconference NYC June 2008
- What kinds of guys usually take workshops?
Now, most are pretty decent cool guys. Back in the days of RSD 1.0 it was a LOT scarier.
- What is the process that PUAs generally go through, from being a newbie to bonafide PUA?
Depends. Some from full nerd to pimp others just want to become more attractive and have a gameplan for improving themselves with women and their relationships.
Really, I don’t teach guys to become PUAs though. There’s the method that teaches guys to become PUAs, but my program teaches guys beyond that and transcends the whole PUA thing. I teach a “Natural Game” program.
Ironically, the end-goal that even the top PUAs refer to as the ‘gold standard’ (the whole us against them mentality—nerd vs. cool guy or hot high status chick) is to be natural. Literally, natural. That’s the best because I’ve met or hung out with many many of the top ‘PUAs’ and I would not want to be or teach other guys to be like them…very interesting characters
- What are some of the most important things you teach that guys need to learn on their path to becoming a PUA?
To be a natural, confidence in themselves and their true path. Becoming more dominant in their realities and lives. Being whom they are meant to be. Being their own guru.
- What is the most common problem that they have with approaching women? What do you think is the root of the problem?
Some are really good actually. The root? Belief in their own ability and natural attractiveness to women. Ie. Women actually like them and enjoy people who bring value to their lives
SOCIALIZATION AND COURTSHIP
- Do you think their problems are a reflection of wider societal issues?
To a degree. There are cultural differences. Ie. Sweden and the US--Had massive feminist movements that helped and yet hurt both men and women.
- What do you think about how men and boys are socialized in our society?
Fine. They just need better leadership and more strong male role models. In a way, the reason for the development of this community was because of the lack of proper leadership and proper role models. True economics—the world is an efficient market. No role models at home and therefore we created our own. Necessity is the mother of all invention.
- What are your thoughts on dating and courtship rituals today? What is the man’s role?
Kinda suck. Very antiquated. The times have changed faster in the past 50-100 years than they ever have. What we’ve learned from our parents is already history. Have integrity. Be strong in their values. Know and follow them.
Austin, Texas! This girl hooked up with my student and then “boyfriended” this guy. Go figure.
- Does the community provide a sense of male empowerment?
Yes, to a degree. Though, I don’t know how necessary it is. I’m a firm believer in taking personal responsibility. Male empowerment sounds like a bunch of sensitive guys going on a weekend retreat to yell, “Yes, we are men and love it!”. A little too feminine for me.
- How does the community level the playing field in terms of status and value?
For my program, it gives guys the opportunity reinvent themselves as high value men. Something maybe they never felt they could be or are. It’s not so much about levelling any field. Levelling dialectically speaking means that you are either raising your value/status or bringing others down to your real perceived value/status. You just are, or become, that natural value-giving high-value person.
- How do you feel about paying for dates?
Haha… whatever. The important thing is that you don’t make anything an ‘issue’. If you believe something is cool and normal then she will believe it and therefore gain a lot of comfort being around you. That’s the surest way for both you and her to getting what you both want. The issue that this evolves around are the expectations that people lay on other people. Girls frequently believe or feel they are obligated to more if a man pays. I choose not to make it a big deal and better yet just stay away from those particular sticky spots that may create anybody to feel obligated to somebody. I don’t even call dates, dates, or Day 2s as the community calls them. I have one word, ‘meetups’. By defining them as ‘meetups’ it takes away all expectations or possible future obligations one may feel toward another. Meetups have one purpose for me, gain massive comfort and I filter everything out that may hinder that.
MALE GENDER ROLES
- What characteristics do you think the IDEAL man has?
Integrity to themselves and their path. As a man, our #1 purpose is achievement. 2. Dominant/assertive—leader 3. Get our emotional states from within—not reactive to superficial values 4. physically strong 5. logical/rational 6. Decisive/certain 7. a little rough 8. have, and not afraid to express, their feminine polarity as who they are as long as they are at a minimum more than 50% on the aforementioned qualities in their relationships. There’s more to that…
- What do you think women are looking for in a man? What kinds of traits? What do they find attractive?
All of the above outlined. That is what I call the 99 percentile man. A man of integrity that does not bow down to superficial standards ie. Beauty and social status. Any woman can only hope to find a man like that sometime in their life.
- How important do you think physical appearance and grooming is when picking up women?
It’s important to display that you have your shit together. It’s more about how you feel you are being perceived and what you choose to let people think of you. Your appearance had better match your values. In other words if you are wearing a $5000 dollar suit then it had better be tailored to your body perfectly and the shoes had better be just as sharp. It’s more about being congruent with WHO YOU ARE and how you perceive yourself as then “trying to look pretty to impress people”.
Precious 10s by any means
- What is the HB rating system? Is there a particular kind of woman in mind? Who is a 10?
Nerd speak. Superficially, it’s a woman who’s outer beauty and status surpasses most others you’ve ever met or seen. Internally, it’s a girl that has her shit together and *knows* who she is and doesn’t compromise her beliefs and values—even for you. A 10 is the above, though I like to subscribe to the system as she’s either a 1 or a 0. A 1 is she’s either good enough for you or 0 she isn’t.
- What gives a woman value in your eyes?
Strength, courage, integrity to whom she’s meant to be and never compromising herself to superficial standards. Of course looks are key, but a woman who doesn’t take care of herself obviously doesn’t have integrity to herself and well being
- What did you think about women before becoming a PUA? [ie have there been changes?]
Lovely creatures and I needed them in my life to feel more complete—very much complimentary to me. For a while I thought they were just luxuries that come and go as I chose. I’ve grown a bit since then; getting older does that to you.
-Do you have female friends?
Yup. They’re awesome. I love hanging with them when I can.
- Is there an unwritten code of ethics that PUAs follow in their relations with women?
Yeah, don’t mess with another guy’s girl. Women are everywhere; don’t screw with friendships over a girl. That rule is pretty standard everywhere, but sometimes it isn’t always easy. Women can definitely be the true predators especially when they are looking for revenge or have just selected you as the most attractive man they’ve met (currently) and can’t help themselves. I’ve fallen in that trap before. I don’t regret it because I learned a ton from it (saved me a few times since), but it can definitely make your life hard if you don’t have your wits about you. You have to know and believe that women are abundant. Guys that aren’t used to women liking them jump on that like flies to shit…. And they pay that price later.
Nathan ATX Crew Mimosa Sundays (R. feeding our precious child ‘Timmy’)
- What is inner game? Do most PUAs focus on both inner and outer game?
It’s all the same to me. Your perception of yourself is what you are projecting onto women and people in general. Who are you? Who do you in your gut see yourself really as? A man with women and friends in their lives or some keyboard jockey that never leaves their couch. Focus on that vision and work toward it. That’s whom you’re meant to be. Quit failing your inner path and who you know you were put on this planet to be. If not you are FAILING yourself and your destiny of who you know you should be. I call it my midlife crisis prevention program.
- How has the community helped improve you personally in terms of inner game?
I am the most fulfilled and happiest I’ve ever been. I feel solid inside. Unshakable reality of who I am. I’ve lost that fear of where I’m going, what I’m doing, and what’s in the end for me. I’ve found my life purpose.
PEACE BE WITH YOU
- There’s a wide array of material out there – what literature helped with your inner development? What ideas and theories have influenced you?
Too many to count. I’ve been a lifelong student of myself and the world around me. Some that stick out at this moment were big realizations from college at The University of Texas-Austin—the pursuit of truth for myself and the world, ‘The Alchemist’ in having a core belief in my life’s purpose, spirituality from eastern philosophy like Bruce Lee, being an life adventurer like Ernest Hemingway, Wayne Dyer (thank you PBS), and of course Ayn Rand’s objectivist philosophy, which lacks in some things (as a mater of fact she HATED mysticism), but was spot on when it came to men following their core purpose and not “sweating the small stuff”. Ironically she was a woman teaching men how to be men and now many of us men are teaching women about how to be fulfilled women. Btw, Ayn Rand was also one of the main catalysts for the feminist movements that may have been the genesis of this male movement
- What kinds of life experiences are important in developing inner game?
Creating ‘No way out’ situations in your life really helps. Otherwise it’s experiencing life without fear of the consequences. Not being afraid to make mistakes. As T.S. Elliot describes in his poem “Lovesong of J Alfred Prufrock” which purveys massive social anxiety and fears of making mistakes, “dare I eat a peach”. In the end, you have to say, “I don’t give a fuck about what anybody thinks of me” and force yourself to grow. Even if a situation spells doom from the outside, having the strength and courage to follow what you know is right will always have a positive outcome. Even if you hurt initially from it, you grow stronger and make better and better choices as you grow. It also creates depth and wisdom—people know the difference between a fake poseur and the real deal (I’m surrounded by them in this ‘community’). The self if always coming through as Freud said.
Something I learned a few years ago was that sometimes all the “TIPS, TIPS, and more TIPS” in the world will never give you the answers you are looking for. The answers you need are actually more in the form of questions. There is no magic pill to you that someone can wave their hand and fix. Be your own guru. Now, what self do you want to be seen coming through when your 30, 40, 50, or 60? It all begins in the choices you make today. Like the book, “The Picture of Dorian Gray” you can only put up a front too long, your true self is on the inside and will always shine through.
- RSD in particular seems to advocate a rebellion against mediocrity. What is it that you think men should strive for in their lives?
Personally, I believe it’s emotional and intellectual freedom through truth. Joy. Abundance. To live LIFE as it’s meant to be lived—how you believe it should be lived. No fears and never compromise your vision of whom you’re meant to be.
Thanks guys and videos to come.
Keep it precious,